Replies: 14 comments 63 replies
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if chia ever becomes as valuable as bitcoin, itd be nice to have 2 chia |
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There is no way to do what you're asking for because then the big player splits into two soft caps. Sybill problems are real. Other thred - "big player" isn't who you think it is. Google/Amazon/FB/Apple/MS don't have spare space. They buy by the shipping container and rack space 24/7 just in time. |
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just need to hijack a shipping container, then i can really start farming |
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What dictates the value of XCH? Bitcoin started out at ad pennies right? So if your getting 4p? Don't mean to be skeptical, I am not and fully intend to support the project. Just trying to understand the perceived value offering. |
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Once chia gets listed on big crypto markets the hope is that people will quickly see the advantages versus other coins. If we think chia is better than bitcoin and etherium, we'd then assume its worth more lol |
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What is the reason why the software shuts down automatically when drawing? |
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Thank you @hoffmang9 for taking the time to answer.
Maybe the term was badly chosen. @hoffmang9 some questions:
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There is no such assumption in my questions. That, in turn, is an assumption you make @hoffmang9 . "(...), plot it, and win - probably the value of your computer - during that computer's life" is a somewhat clearer indication to questions 3. and 4. Pity there are no straightforwards answers. Also to Questions 1. and 2.
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ive got about 0.4 chia per TB ive had online so far, i'd assume everyone is seeing similar numbers. Once it hits 2 chia per TB id assume most people that have 2TB would have won. |
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This is worse than farming bitcoin lol... |
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About the top rewards? Im sure bitcoin started off with a handful of miners getting most of the coins. Theoretically more small farmers will come online soon. |
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The problem here is that you compare bitcoin which has been farmed for a decade now, with a fresh start on a new coin... |
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If you're 'investing' more than what you can afford to lose, then you should stop farming. And this would include unused diskspace which you can forego. Just imagine you bought a TB external disk (due to price factor), but you've only used 200GB of it, you have 800GB to spare to which you know you'll never use the most of it. You plot 2 x k32, farm, and get rewarded for the unused space. What's your lost? None. You may in fact gain some XCH over time, and if the market value hits a favourable value, your unused space in the past is rewarded handsomely. What could be a problem in this scenario? If you wanna think towards making it profitable...then you aren't considering what the whales (with vested business interest) would need to financially and operationally commit to. They would be much more worried than your few plots of diskspace. To says that they shouldn't receive the rewards due to their investment is rather unfair. If it's about ROI, then you're thinking way too simple. |
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Thank you @keliew for your comment. |
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Ally to beat whales? Why is there no POOL for miners/famers? |
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If my calculation is more or less right, with 135 PB on the mainnet as per today, one needs some 135 plots to be able to expect a XCH/day |
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So when it says 2 days estimation and I havent won a single XCH coin in almost 7 days what does this tells us? |
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It tells us that you are unlucky. I was unlucky for 4 days too. Much more here - https://chiadecentral.com/will-i-win-chia-with-2-tb-of-plots/ |
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It tells us, that it is a lottery, as announced ;-) |
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so many TB of writing on my poor ssd it will eventually blow up. I ll give farming a couple of weeks and see how it goes. If its still 1 coin per week well... maybe next year :D |
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I think you have to update the calculation formula of Expected Time to Win. Its completely inaccurate. |
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Please enlighten me! |
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I mean in the app, if it displays 2 days expected time to win and you dont get any within a week, well seems like you could make it at least 7 days :) |
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ive had what seemed like 3 in a row, then a gap of multiples times the expected. Average time definately uneven. |
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My concern with this V traditional mining such as Eth at the moment is you always get a return to match that of your % in contribution. Where as with this method you could easily allcoate a years with of time, hardware and effort and get nothing to show for it. Nothing at all. Especilly as the % contributio gets smaller as more enter the field in coming months to years. Where is the reward for early supporters? Why not reward all with a % of their contribution 0.002% etc. |
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Well because they designed in that way, maybe there is a reason but I am still getting 0 XCH with 10 days of farming (expected time to win is shown as 2, sometimes 3)... People in not as wealthy countries as USA etc, cannot afford buying 1petabyte of hdds in order to get some coins. How hard is it to make rewards of XCH in floating/double values? |
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I just got into this a week ago. About 120 plots farming now and no rewards. I think this might be a significant issue for the whole idea of Chia. It seems, that there is a kind of threshold amount of plots under which there is no point of wasting your time and energy to set up the farming. It would be better to earn at least a fraction of Chia in a week than no Chia at all in several weeks or even months. I think this is somewhat psychological, but it might matter a lot. For me it seems, that the threshold is already in some tens of terabytes and we have barely just begun. I think people with less than some tens of terabytes will be dropping out once they don't see rewards in weeks. New small farmers might be discouraged also, so the real unused empty storage might not be joining to this. I would argue, that at the moment most of the storage used for plotting is mainly purchased for plotting purpose only. In comparison. I could invest 10k into Ethereum mining rig and earn over 1k/month right now for sure. But, things are changing fast and I am still willing to bet on Chia. |
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in a few weeks they plan on releasing a pool mining solution where you can split rewards with others. Potentially allowing for smaller rewards more often. |
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That's good news. I hope it will set the bar low enough for small farmers. |
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Why not limit the maximum amount of space per node to let's say 1TB? It would definitely favour small players and network dispersion. |
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Aw! as @toadzhou pointed out in #1719 , https://hpool.com/ seems to be the mystery address. Their website shows about 30PB and growing. chia explorer shows about 11.5% of last 10,000. |
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Interestingly, when total netspace (blue) dropped, it didn't make a significant dent to hpool (green). When total netspace increase drastically, hpool's plot size didn't increase accordingly... It seems that our attention on hpool is rather...misleading. It sure seems the number of users on hpool or plots are steadily increasing, whilst others are increasing at a very frightening speed... |
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good points. It seems to me that the spikes down would have to be the result of people having issues keeping their farmers on, or smaller farmers just shutting down their computer for the night. There has to exist at least as many plots as the previous max. give or take depending on how the number is calculated. if you drew a line from the previous max to the latest max, the growth doesnt seem as alarming. |
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for a visual. i drew a purple line for assumed network growth, and filled in pink where i assume existing plots are off network. it looked like a lot of Mac users were having issues this week so maybe they're coming back. also the chart is a bit deceptive itself. the total network scale on the left is by 10 units, while the right side is 2 units. |
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This is very wonderful experience farming XCH. almost 2 weeks with 2-3 days "Expected time to win" and 0 XCH farmed so far. GREAT! FEELS GOOD! Seems legitimate right? Winner takes it all and the rest are rekt... |
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It's not winner takes all. As of today, 2657 addresses have won a block, and that number continues to increase. Maybe you are unlucky, or maybe your setup has an issue (such as an unsynced node or wallet). If Chia frustrates you, it's probably better for you to look at alternatives. But the coin allocation works as intended, and it's fair: statistically equal to each farmer's percentage of the network. |
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Mmmmh .... Anyone any experience about that? |
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Cheap SSDs are cheap... The sky is blue - https://github.com/Chia-Network/chia-blockchain/wiki/SSD-Endurance |
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Yeah - let's just throw 'em to the trash and buy new ones .... |
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Well you dont have to run them into the ground? Use then for 50 -70% of their life only for plotting and you're likely still good to use them for regular use for many years. |
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Hello, From my opinion, ONLY three types could earn money from chia. Today(2021-5-18 12:01:40) this is my chia software. I dig it two days, craete 18 plots, and get none reward. It shown that i need 2 years to estimated time to win a block. What the f... BUT i has read the chia's doc and wiki, I found something confusion thing for me. AND the important is when we create the 101GB plot file and storege in Large disk, it's still wait the sync to mainnet and don't know it's wether will get reward or not. During in that time we couldn't delete the 101GB plot file. I think when Plot finished, it could keep an little file that include the result or they need something data, DO NOT keep a big file. In addition we could't delete it. I think when the XCH price goes down or some miner couldn't afford the disk price, this mine type will be abandoned. Because fom an environmental and economic point of view, it is not sustainable!!! Wish some miner get the reward convert to Bitcoin or some other coin early, DO not keep it. Conclusion: This model is not sustainable! Wish Chia team could think about this. if not, i think they are just play trick, no environment protection, no decentralization, no blockchain... |
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I have 178 plots showing time remaining to win 3 months I have another 4rb to plot but I'm not keeping my hopes up for a win. This seems to be worst than bitcoin for environmental impact. But, plotting takes massive resources of hard drives and electric to plot the files only to have the whole network increase and time remaining to win go up!!!!! Plots are passing filter but find nothing at all. I've never won the lottery, so should we look at this the same???? Since it's like or describes as a lottery. If that's the case, you could farm for a lifetime and never win. This is not usefull for anyone new. I started when network was I let 200Pb. Not it's 6.36 EiB. Chia is dead before it begins properly for the normal average pc user. |
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actually, i think it's a trick... |
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Starting to think your right. Lol I'll stick with my GPU mining. At least that earns something daily lol |
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i also think it worst than bitcoin for environmental impact. |
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it is nothing new.. Big whales will take more piece of the cake, consequently yo would need to join to a pool to balance the things. |
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Good luck dude., I have 17.6 Tb at the moment and my rewards estimate is 3 months. Was 2 months 3 days ago and I'm still plotting everyday to fill my spare hard drives lol |
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you farm because of you see chia as one of the following options: 1 - you're a small guy and you don't have many resources, so that's a lottery. you may end up getting a winning ticket, that ends up paying for the cost of your hardware, which otherwise you wouldn't. 2 - hobby - you know that Bram Cohen built bittorrent, a technology that dramatically changed how people share data. you want to support the network because you want to see what this new technology will accomplish. You do not expect profits, but you'll be happy if they come. 3 - business - you see Chia as an investment, with huge potential in the future. You are willing to take a big risk, spend money on hard drives and hardware, building mining farms, spending your time improving efficiency, working with people and creating pools, building communities, pools, trying to contribute to the success of the project. High chances that you are going to make money, because you're willing to put in the effort, the time and the investment. One can also spend their time arguing about decentralization vs rewards proportion, however it seems awkward that someone that is unwilling to contribute more, is debating and expecting to receive rewards proportional to people that do decide to put in the effort, and take the risks on an unproven technology. i understand that not everyone is unwilling, maybe a lot of people just don't have the resources, but you can't build a house with good intentions. Someone has to put in the time, the effort and the resources. |
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Pure lucky: With 8 plots I won 2 XCH. With 20 plots I won 2 more XCH. I already have 200 plots, and I didn't win any more ... I will continue to plot, and participate in the game, until the launch of the pools .... Not to mention that I use video card mining rigs to mine XCH. |
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You must have started early. Mate has 18 coins. He had 144 plots when the network was only 207PiB in size . I keep plotting more, but can't keep up to lower the estimated time. Glad you managed to get something for yourself though👍 |
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Hello everybody from a newbie.
I have managed to install two plots of k=32 on a laptop (HDD - one plot at a time, took a bit). Now the farm dashboard indicates "Time to win = 5 months" (to win a block of two XCH, right?).
Now depending on the expected value of a XCH coin, I was wondering: Is farming worth at all the "effort" for a "mini-farmer"?
As, moreover, there is no guarantee (as it is a lottery), my impression is that the "target audience" as farmers are folks who are willing to invest in loads of TB harddrives (or do already have so) to have any chance of harvesting anything significant at all.
Why would it be interesting at all for folks "who just happen to have some disk space", to make that available?
Why would a block of 2 XCH over 5 months be an incentive?
Thank you for any thoughts on this.
Best regards!
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