2024-07-12 - Product Backlog Refinement - Chewing the Fat 📈

[bradystroud]

https://www.ssw.com.au/rules/backlog-refinement-meeting

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

[Freego1783]

I've done some of those meetings in the past, it's really useful since projects tend to change along the way. Usually doing this with the dev team and calling in the PO if we need some clarification.

[tiagov8]

Most times PBIs can be refined without recurrent meetings, but I guess it dependes on the project.

The most important thing is to make sure any PBI is well defined enough to be completed without any deviation

[matt-goldman-ssw]

Backlog refinement is a game changer and I do it every Sprint now. Attendees are the Scrum Master and Product owner. You can pull other people in as required.

Video content from Calum was awesome but we need to get rid of that intro before we ship it. Also no mention in the video or rule about ordering the backlog - the refinement session is important to ensure the backlog reflects the PO's priority as well as ensuring that PBIs are Ready.

[danielmackay]

When I first started at SSW I asked about Refinement meetings, and these didn't seem to be happening. I'm glad to see the are becoming more common place.

Without Refinement meetings, I've witnessed:

• I've seen Sprint Planning turn into meetings of epic length
• Many PBIs get insta blocked during the Sprint, wasting lots of time

Personally, in Refinement I like to see primarily Tech Lead + Developers, which Product Owners being bought in as needed. That way you can draw on the knowledge of everyone in the team, and developers can start thinking about the specifics of PBIs prior to actually working on them.

[wicksipedia]

Many PBIs get insta blocked during the Sprint, wasting lots of time

Sounds like no one was reading the PBIs that they were pulling into the Sprint during the planning session 👀

[GabbyWard]

My current project team haven't done this, but when our last sprint planning meeting went overtime (2x the allocation) and it's because we are having to re-define the PBIs I think this would be a great initiative!

[ncn-ssw]

Though I can see there being value in such meetings for complex projects, there is no substitute for training your team to write PBIs properly in the first place.

[jakebayliss]

These are extremely important meetings and ideally I would do them every second sprint. Too often and you end up with a 10 minute meeting where you refined only a few PBI's.

I also dont think it is absolutely necessary that a PBI is 100% defined, refined, designed, estimated, ready at the time you pick it up, its not that hard to call the PO and ask them a question or 2. You will likely find yourself doing this even if the PBI is 'ready'.

I think it depends on the type of PO you have whether you have them in the refinement meeting. If they are technical and can add value when estimating or fleshing out PBI's then fine, but if not it is a waste of time for them and can be called in when they are needed for requirements

[ozdemir-mehmet]

These critical meetings should happen every second sprint to avoid short, unproductive sessions, and it's fine if a PBI isn't fully defined at the start, as you can always contact the PO for clarity; involving the PO in refinement meetings depends on their technical expertise and the value they add.

Hey I work in a steel mill

[YalalCakirSSW]

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

Backlog Refinement is very important and necessary to ensure well defined PBIs and for smooth sprint planning experience. I think it should be done at least every 2-3 sprints. I haven't attended one yet. Tech lead and a dev would be sufficient.

[stephanfakossw]

N/a - not a dev (but I can see how this topic is important for the devs)

[leahy268]

Nothing worse than getting into Sprint Planning and then looking at the PBI and needing to spend heaps of time refining the items. Super important to get that job over and done with before that point.

[jeoffreyfischer]

Good reminder as Backlog Refinement is often forgotten but is such a crucial phase of the Scrum process.

[tkapa]

The suggested approach of just incrementally defining PBIs rather than taking on the whole task is great. Sometimes this meeting can drag depending on the scope.

[SamBWagner]

I routinely find that these meetings are just total wastes of time as the refined items are de-prioritised and move to later on.

It's better to have meetings with the Product Owner about stuff they're actively interested in doing and then just refining them on-the-fly in the sprint.

[Tanya-Leahy]

No, I haven't yet been involved in a Backlog Refinement Meeting. I have come across quite a few PBIs that aren't refined enough to work on without further information. At least a tech lead and developer should be involved in these meetings.

[isaaclombardssw]

I haven't come across these meetings before, but I have come across PBIs warranting refinement. Moving these refinement tasks out of the team-wide meetings would have saved some time.

[will-truscott-ssw]

Personally, I feel backlog refinement meetings should occur whenever an issue is identified to avoid unnecessary personnel costs and meeting fatigue from your product owner. For example, if you've noticed any times where a dev has been unsure about a task, it's likely you need a refinement meeting! In my experience this generally happens every 3 or so sprints as requirements evolve.

[SamBWagner]

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

I think they're a good tool to add to the tool-belt. However, they're not a silver bullet and they can lead to an extreme level of time wasting.

I think this should be deployed team-to-team and pbi-to-pbi. If a large scale refinement meeting is what works best for your team, and you can prove that, then that's awesome!

If you're better off doing it on-the-fly, then that's also great!

Your team should define the process. The process should not define how the team works.

[jaydenalchin]

Frequent backlog refinements are super important - refined, understandable, prioritised PBIs go a long way. However, I don't think the whole team of developers need to be involved in them. A backlog refinement session should really just be a Product Owner refining and prioritising items in the Product Backlog and pulling in the team members they need to support that as they go.

[jimmidier]

have you done these and who should be required

I haven't but have seen the outcome of the refinement meeting where only the PO and the scrum master took part in to avoid consuming too much time for the rest. PO should be required for sure, with one of the other developers for technical information.

[JerryLuo5799]

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

I think it's very important, in my current client project, we need tech leader, a dev, and PO, we think PO should confirm all the refinement .

[Aibono1225]

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

No, I haven't. I think Tech Lead, Devs and PO should be required.

[KristenHu]

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

No, but we've re-defined PBIs in sprint planning sometimes. Tech Lead and PO must be required.

[babakamyljanovssw]

Before Sprint, usually PO or Scrum Master add tag to PBI e.g."Sprint xxx", that will help to do Sprint Planning smoothly

[tino-liu]

Backlog Refinement is great to have, but an already well written PBI and transparency culture does make it less required.

[JeanThirion]

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

Big projects with many devs ? Regardless of whether it's an appointment or not, this should be the scrum masters' priority to make sure the backlog is always as refined as possible, with the help of the tech lead.

Should it be a recurring appointment? Well, if you can't get it done "naturally" then yeah probably.

Smaller scale project ? (I.e. typical 2 devs + SM)
I don't think it's worth having a recurring meeting, you should be able to manage a clean backlog naturally. But if you can't then again, that's a tool.

[drwharris]

I dont know how anyone can go into planning without a fair degree of refinement done.

I find refinement meetings that have the whole team go off track rapidly and waste the time of a fair amount of the team.

My ideal refinement meeting deals with one Feature, it includes the Tech Lead, 1 SME developer, 1 Tester, the PO and SM.

[JackDevAU]

Definitely need a refinement meeting or the "planning" becomes it...

[TobyChurches]

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

I have but it is generally Ad Hoc, There isn't a set recurrence, but it usually involves a Dev and the tech lead.

[vladislav-kir]

Backlog Refinement Meetings - have you done these and who should be required?

In my experience Backlog Refinement Meetings are extremely useful! On my current client, I do them almost every week with the Product Owner and one more dev.

[PothieuG]

Backlog Refinement is great, but it become less important if the project is small and PBIs are already well written.