Dealing with distributions

[reaperx7]

Been noticing a lot of distributions are being hesitant to down right ignorant of adopting Xlibre. Many have users posting the back and forth between Enrico and Linus in 2021 basing that as their main argument.

I noticed Patrick Volkerding, the maintainer of Slackware, thought to be the most UNIX-like of Linux distributions, seems to have written off xlibre, despite the obvious problems of wayland still unaddressed.

This seems to be the general norm outside of anti-Red Hat, pro-FOSS distributions like Artix, Devuan, and others. Like why are people still dredging up an argument from a person's individual stance and beliefs from 4 years ago. Peanut gallery members chiming in saying "Hell no!" and other complete bullshit arguments.

Honestly, has politics poisoned FOSS this badly? Has this poisonous mindset just allowed people to write off bad designs and bad software as "Okay" because of them not liking someone's personal beliefs? I thought FOSS was about anyone being able to contribute in some way, projects being forked to allow continuous development should the need arise?

I mean if we're throwing stones at this point, why does GNU and GPL get a pass? People are still upset at Richard Stallman over his stances on Epstein and some of the perpetrators from the MIT incident... Why is it so important to protect GPL and GNU? If this was anything else, GPL and GNU would be out of the userland and distributions, but it gets a free pass. Why? Because it's useful? Because it's too engrained? Again, if we're all in a glass house throwing stones and breaking windows, why does one entity get a pass and the other doesn't?

[kkmzero]

XLibre needs to cook a little bit more to prove to developers and distro maintainers that it's a viable alternative with real advantages compared to frozen X.Org. Positive user experience will make users of other distros demand XLibre packaged. Solve people's problems, be a good software project and you will win. All this political nonsense is inflated by both sides, it's very twitter-like and it's very tiresome. Luckily these things will cool off and drama will stop as soon as there's another new hot topic. At the end of it be sure to have good project ready for deployment.

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

To be honest, that's problem of Linux, not problem of new users. GNU/Linux was always "marketed" as this viable alternative to Windows and emphasis was put to switching from Windows to Linux (and how easy the process is).

That's not exactly how I recall it. First, "marketed" is rather loose in this context (maybe RedHat did some of it, but, it was feeble compared to the MS shouting - but, also, I don't consider RH to be GNU/Linux, certainly not after they were bought by Big Blue).

What I do recall is that people were told that they "could" make the switch to Linux from MS. That it was plausible for them to pick it up i.e. It was an optimistic message (ok) that yes, "you can do it if you try"... but, I don't think the message of difficulty was understated. They would have to put in a certain amount of effort and self reliance.

But, um, some could make the leap and didn't want to, or they found out they didn't want to put the effort in or they just made an assessment that it didn't meet their requirements. Others, really couldn't do it, for whatever reason e.g. time, concentration, etc.

[reaperx7]

To be honest, that's problem of Linux, not problem of new users. GNU/Linux was always "marketed" as this viable alternative to Windows and emphasis was put to switching from Windows to Linux (and how easy the process is).

That's not exactly how I recall it. First, "marketed" is rather loose in this context (maybe RedHat did some of it, but, it was feeble compared to the MS shouting - but, also, I don't consider RH to be GNU/Linux, certainly not after they were bought by Big Blue).

What I do recall is that people were told that they "could" make the switch to Linux from MS. That it was plausible for them to pick it up i.e. It was an optimistic message (ok) that yes, "you can do it if you try"... but, I don't think the message of difficulty was understated. They would have to put in a certain amount of effort and self reliance.

But, um, some could make the leap and didn't want to, or they found out they didn't want to put the effort in or they just made an assessment that it didn't meet their requirements. Others, really couldn't do it, for whatever reason e.g. time, concentration, etc.

Exactly, and most people have been pointed to Ubuntu or Mint coming over, not Fedora or RHEL. The only people marketing Linux to newbies is other people, word of mouth, pointing people to one of the easiest to use distributions.... Mint.

[kkmzero]

You have so-called influencers, Linux topic is not an exception. I recall many people publishing videos, social media posts and articles in which they boldly claimed how easy it is for Windows users to switch to Linux, except if you need Adobe software or if you have NVIDIA card, otherwise smooth sailing. Yes, it's people to people relationship but imo there's a way how to do it correctly - something like End of 10 campaign which pretty much says "yes, you might have problems with Linux, here's list of people in your area who can help you". By the way, @reaperx7, Fedora Workstation is recommended often by other people but it's mostly gamers or people who do multimedia work. Fedora is surprisingly popular these days, I hear about it more than I hear about Ubuntu.

[smj-cc]

I recall many people publishing videos, social media posts and articles in which they boldly claimed how easy it is for Windows users to switch to Linux

I used to tell people: Windows is a "black box". When things break, and lots of things break, Windows will likely get around to fixing it, likely in a new release. Linux has even more things "broken", but with Linux, you can fix them.

With Windows, you try to guess what's wrong, and stab at things until something improves, or you give up. With Linux, you can figure out what's wrong.

[jelabarre59]

There are days I miss working with AIX... (as far as desktops go I'm liking NsCDE more and more)

There was a time over 15 years ago when a couple of us at IBM had dabbled in compiling Xorg under AIX. It was a far harder task than anyone realized. The X11 server in AIX was severely outdated even back then, and I think the only reason you see "new" builds/releases of X11 on AIX is because they have to compile against newer C libraries.

[reaperx7]

That is unfortunately true. The biggest problem is communities like Phoronix who literally love to belittle and badmouth any good efforts in software from people who aren't long time system admins, software developers, or anyone with any credentials to back up their claims. I don't have anything against Michael Larabel himself, but that community is probably one of the most toxic and demeaning communities towards anything FOSS related and honestly, they act like the equivalent of KiwiFarms, if that's even plausible.

[kkmzero]

I know what you mean. Reading comments on Phoronix nearly every day had really negative impact on me. I really don't understand them but it seems they might be the type of users who simply like where Linux (mostly on desktop) is heading. It's not just FOSS thing though, you have people who praise what Microsoft is doing nowadays while long time Windows users are ripping their hair out from despair. That community is not big though, so I don't know if it matters. It's difficult to keep sanity though, because every day I read about some stupid decision in tech while people online (not just on Phoronix) are clapping and celebrating. We still have alternatives, so it's not the end of the world.

[jelabarre59]

Phoronix is proving themselves to be more like Moronix...

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

Phoronix does cater to commercial interests as well as stereotypical Linux users.. This is pretty obvious isn't it? e.g. Who can afford to build an Epyc system(?) and we see painfully long benchmark articles about these systems perhaps once per month. This is just one expensive commercial product of many that Phoronix follows pretty carefully. They can be interesting I guess. But, they're not relevant, not to me. Unfortunately, the brainwashing (i.e. "negative impact") is only going to increase as more auto-replying pets are deployed..

p.s. Michael should get rid of the "laugh" emoji - it serves no real purpose other than to humiliate. Thumbs up/down is enough..

[smj-cc]

yeah, that was the intent of it, but, it's not used that way very much; not now surely e.g. in the context of Xlibre, i.e. sincere ~ friendly, I see very few friendly laugh emojis

I'm not sure of the cases you reference, but I have responded with a laugh emoji in at least one case, where someone responded with "based on what?" to someone else calling something "based". I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that they were impishly feigning ignorance. Some time later it did occur to me that it could have been a straight question, and responded accordingly.

Was this a use of the laugh emoji which you would have objected to?

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

See: Phoronix: XLibre 25.0 Released There are 292 responses across 18 pages, of just the first 10 posts, there are 106 laughing emojis in those 10 responses.. If we believe this sample is a good enough one (?), then there are approximately 3k emojis total.. Very few, if any, are friendly and the words are pretty bad as well..

[smj-cc]

Interesting. I'm willing to stipulate your assessments.

It seems to me that the laugh emojis you reference are indeed genuinely unfriendly. I'll further stipulate that they were meant to be unfriendly, perhaps even that their authors may well be just unfriendly in general to opposition in general.

Still.. When someone harbors me ill will, I value knowing about it. A simple thumbs down might be interpreted as simple disagreement, where the laugh emoji makes it clear they wish to belittle. I see value in being able to discern the difference.

Free speech doesn't mean much if it doesn't mean the freedom to say things that people don't want to hear. If someone truly thinks I'm a joke, a jerk, or worse, I want them to feel free to say so, in no uncertain terms.

I value civility, but I value liberty more. Good manners cannot be legislated, and may even be inappropriate, if you are trying to declare that you find something unacceptable.

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

Many boards have rules. Try the Ubuntu discourse for example, you can't write anything critical about their competitors, without getting relegated to the lounge or outright banned. Enrico knows about this in one of the X community lists recently? But, I don't think getting rid of the laughing emoji would be stifling anyone's freedom of expression..

Otherwise, my comment was meant to call out the meanness of these emojis and sympathize with the OP.

[smj-cc]

Otherwise, my comment was meant to call out the meanness of these emojis and sympathize with the OP.

Calling out meanness is one thing.
Objecting to it's expression is another.

[SuperDuperDeou]

After enough people say that they're using XLibre, btw, community distros will have to package it by popular demand. Meanwhile,
Nvidia will make its entire driver stack FOSS before Ubuntu and RHEL/Fedora will package XLibre, we'll just have to live with that.

[SuperDuperDeou]

Re: Debian (old): I haven't found that to be true about Debian. I suppose their baseline kernel is behind, but, there are plenty of solutions to that. I found the trixie distros (xfce, kde, lxqt, etc.) to be every bit as up to date as any other distro and polished better as well; even before the freeze.

Currently Xlibre is old software, it should fit right in to your vision of Debian.. No? But, I hope we agree that we want Xlibre to be stable, to be extended and not frozen?

XLibre might have been forked from an old project, but the project itself is less than a month old, and the release notes literally say that 25.0.0.0 is a beta, not exactly something Debian would transition to last minute before a release. XLibe still needs time to cook even for Artix, which wants to speedrun replacing XOrg with it, let alone Debian.

Re: Hyprland, yes, that's why it's of interest, because of the publicity. The point I was making is that Debian made a conscious decision to leave it out of the distro. i.e. They could have left it in as a place-holder (with its warts), but, they chose to make an issue/example of it. I don't necessarily disagree with their decision. But, they can and will exercise their discretion. This is a concern, because it hints at an agenda.

It's not Debian that doesn't support Hyprland, it's the other way around, and Hyprland in Debian Sid means it will likely be in Debian 14.

Re: The AUR. If Xlibre is happy with PKGBUILD+makepkg why does Xlibre bother with threads like chaotic-aur? Please explain...

I don't believe a package on the AUR is going to keep Xlibre going. It needs to be an optional selection (vs Xorg - ok), but, it needs to be seamless, i.e. without the PKGBUILD+makepkg steps..

The Chaotic AUR, unlike the AUR, is not an official Arch repository, it's being maintained by 3rd parties and used only by a relatively subset of Arch users (according to the Reddit survey, no more than roughly 20%), most Arch users are happy compiling their AUR pckages, but of course the Chaotic AUR users want their stuff to be in the Chaotic AUR.

If XLibre is allowed in the AUR, it implicitly states that Arch is fine with the idea of XLibre existing on Arch, and if it gets popular enough it should be eligible for a promotion to the core repo, that is something that happens all the time, and not all the packages that got promoted had a -bin package. But, if you think that an AUR -bin package for XLibre is so important, there's nothing preventing you from contributing it to the AUR.

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

Re: Xlibre (old)

XLibre might have been forked from an old project, but the project itself is less than a month old

I take it you want to alienate all potential users of Xlibre whose systems are more than 5 years old?

One of the reasons I use X is that it supports the Graphics cards I own better than Wayland. I have no interest in newer hardware that essentially shifts ownership from the buyer to commercial interests (with black boxes and rigged, immutable firmware).

I've also read the posts from various people contributing to Xlibre discusions about a vision statement for Xlibre. Some are for dropping support for systems that are 20 years old. I don't know.

Re: Debian

It's not Debian that doesn't support Hyprland, it's the other way around, and Hyprland in Debian Sid means it will likely be in Debian 14.

https://linuxiac.com/hyprland-will-not-be-included-in-debian-13-trixie/

"In a noteworthy development, the Debian Release Team recently removed the Hyprland ecosystem from its upcoming 13 “Trixie” release. Simon McVittie, a Debian developer, initiated this removal"

I've also read a lot of the mailing lists, sift through them if you like. But, most of the discussions are between disgruntled supporters of Hyprland and Debian decision makers.

Re: The AUR

The Chaotic AUR, unlike the AUR, is not an official Arch repository

I didn't ask you what it was, I asked why you thought Xlibre had such an interest in chaotic that they would submit a request (and according to Arch themselves, a redundant request - which Xlibre clearly disputed).

if it gets popular enough

So, you are interested in it getting popular, but, not on old systems evidently..

[SuperDuperDeou]

Re: Xlibre (old)

XLibre might have been forked from an old project, but the project itself is less than a month old

I take it you want to alienate all potential users of Xlibre whose systems are more than 5 years old?

One of the reasons I use X is that it supports the Graphics cards I own better than Wayland. I have no interest in newer hardware that essentially shifts ownership from the buyer to commercial interests (with black boxes and rigged, immutable firmware).

I've also read the posts from various people contributing to Xlibre discusions about a vision statement for Xlibre. Some are for dropping support for systems that are 20 years old. I don't know.

What does it have to do with what I said? XLibre was forked literally this month. It is a new project, being forked from an ancient project does not make XLibre also ancient, and it being a new project or an ancient one, doesn't say anything about the supported hardware: some random terminal util some guy published last week (new project) will run just fine on a Pentium 4, while a modern build of Blender (ancient project) doesn't run on hardware that doesn't support OpenGL 4.3.

Btw, I am for the drop of hardware with less than 16MB of VRAM (enough for a 1080p double buffer at 24 bit per pixel, a.k.a. the baseline screen resolution for the last 10+ years, because I don't see any point for a display server to maintain drivers for hardware that can't actually drive a display)

Re: Debian

It's not Debian that doesn't support Hyprland, it's the other way around, and Hyprland in Debian Sid means it will likely be in Debian 14.

https://linuxiac.com/hyprland-will-not-be-included-in-debian-13-trixie/

"In a noteworthy development, the Debian Release Team recently removed the Hyprland ecosystem from its upcoming 13 “Trixie” release. Simon McVittie, a Debian developer, initiated this removal"

I've also read a lot of the mailing lists, sift through them if you like. But, most of the discussions are between disgruntled supporters of Hyprland and Debian decision makers.

That article is about Hyprland not being included in Debian 13 for technical reasons, not political ones, and it's about Debian 13, while I was talking about it being in Debian Unstable and the possibility of Hyprland making in into Debian 14 (fourteen, not a typo).

Re: The AUR

The Chaotic AUR, unlike the AUR, is not an official Arch repository

I didn't ask you what it was, I asked why you thought Xlibre had such an interest in chaotic that they would submit a request (and according to Arch themselves, a redundant request - which Xlibre clearly disputed).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the issues about XLibre in the Chaotic AUR were not made by metux, and I'm pretty sure that, right now, only metux can speak in the name of the project. It's not XLibre that cares about the Chaotic AUR, but it's an handful of users of Chaotic AUR that want XLibre in it, the situation is completely different than what you described. And again, unlike the AUR, the Chaotic AUR is not part of Arch, it's just a third party repo for Arch.

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

What does it have to do with what I said? XLibre was forked literally this month. It is a new project,

Everything. You're trying to frame and shape Xlibre (as a new project, etc.) while at the same time claiming you want it to be popular (with who one wonders?). It is essentially 99% old X11 at the moment. This is a fact. Do a diff and count the sloc in common. It appeals to current X users who far and away are using older equipment. If as you claim or would like (it doesn't matter) it to be something else and jettison those with old equipment, then you risk the "popularity" that you have written is necessary.

That article is about Hyprland not being included in Debian 13 for technical reasons, not political ones

Yes, well, Debian certainly wanted everyone to know about this mundane piece of process.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the issues about XLibre in the Chaotic AUR were not made by metux, and I'm pretty sure that, right now, only metux can speak in the name of the project

chaotic-aur/packages#3684 (comment)

[SuperDuperDeou]

What does it have to do with what I said? XLibre was forked literally this month. It is a new project,

Everything. You're trying to frame and shape Xlibre (as a new project, etc.) while at the same time claiming you want it to be popular (with who one wonders?). It is essentially 99% old X11 at the moment. This is a fact. Do a diff and count the sloc in common. It appeals to current X users who far and away are using older equipment. If as you claim or would like (it doesn't matter) it to be something else and jettison those with old equipment, then you risk the "popularity" that you have written is necessary.

XLibre has 5% less lines of code than XOrg despite the addition of a new protocol extension, so it's definitely not 95% XOrg, code-wise, that's even the reason why metux said that 25.0.0.0 is a beta (and why would Debian ever ship a beta for something as important as the X server?). But even if, by now, the only changes were documentation, it's still a new project, with new leadership, new vison, and new plans.

I am an XLibre user, it's not just people with older equipment: I use it on my with workstation with an RTX 4060ti, and it;s clear that XLibre wants to be the future of display servers, not just legacy support. Also, I gave you my hard requirement, and even a Thinkpad T60 with integrated graphics from 2006 passes it with flying colors. Nobody is unironically using hardware that old in current year.

That article is about Hyprland not being included in Debian 13 for technical reasons, not political ones

Yes, well, Debian certainly wanted everyone to know about this mundane piece of process.

It is a mundane piece of process, it just made headlines because Hyprland is very popular and it looked like it could be included for Debian 13, but ended up not to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the issues about XLibre in the Chaotic AUR were not made by metux, and I'm pretty sure that, right now, only metux can speak in the name of the project

chaotic-aur/packages#3684 (comment)

And he is just talking about technical problems with shipping a Chaotic AUR package in its current state, nothing out of the ordinary. Cool of that 20% of Arch users who use the Chaotic AUR that the project lead got involved, I guess.

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

Nobody is unironically using hardware that old in current year.

Debian, MX, Slackware, even Arch (to name a few) users would beg to differ. I have 4 machines with 6.16-rc3 and X that are older.. But, I would even venture that there are plenty of SBC users that would benefit from an Xlibre that supports devices that don't meet your hard requirements.

It is a mundane piece of process

I guess I'll just have to disagree, since Debian probably won't admit that it was politically motivated. I don't think there's anyone involved who will come clean on this.

chaotic-aur/packages#3684 (comment)

And he is just talking about technical problems with shipping a Chaotic AUR package in its current state, nothing out of the ordinary

He is supporting the request for inclusion in chaotic, not just once but with several technical posts (*).. which you wrote (you were pretty sure) he did not.

(*) against xiota of Arch, who seems to be the point contact with regard to Arch's barrier to chaotic - some of the replies are fairly offensive to Xlibre btw. Not good.

[SuperDuperDeou]

Nobody is unironically using hardware that old in current year.

Debian, MX, Slackware, even Arch (to name a few) users would beg to differ. I have 4 machines with 6.16-rc3 and X that are older.. But, I would even venture that there are plenty of SBC users that would benefit from an Xlibre that supports devices that don't meet your hard requirements.

An handful of people does use a 15 years old Thinkpad, but not a 20 years old one, and the 20 years old one far surpasses my hard requirements, and so does even a Raspberry Pi Zero, so, I'm sticking to what I said.

It is a mundane piece of process

I guess I'll just have to disagree, since Debian probably won't admit that it was politically motivated. I don't think there's anyone involved who will come clean on this.

If the Debian maintainers think that Hyprland shouldn't be on Debian, then why is Hyprland still in Debian Sid?

chaotic-aur/packages#3684 (comment)

And he is just talking about technical problems with shipping a Chaotic AUR package in its current state, nothing out of the ordinary

He is supporting the request for inclusion in chaotic, not just once but with several technical posts (*).. which you wrote (you were pretty sure) he did not.

(*) against xiota of Arch, who seems to be the point contact with regard to Arch's barrier to chaotic - some of the replies are fairly offensive to Xlibre btw. Not good.

Xiota is a contributor of the Chaotic AUR, not a member of Arch, you're escalating the ramblings of a random person on the internet to the official stance of a project that's involved in the discussion. The actual member of the Chaotic AUR just wants a few screenshots, to prove that there actually are users of the Chaotic AUR that run XLibre, which is totally fair. I cannot provide one because I'm not a user of the Chaotic AUR, or of Arch in general (yikes soystemd, at most, I can show off my installation from the galaxy-gremlins Artix repo, which would be completely meaningless in the discussion).

Again, THE CHAOTIC AUR IS NOT PART OF ARCH LINUX. The AUR is, and it has no issues with XLibre, it looks like. Stop saying that the Chaotic AUR is Arch, because it's not. The Chaotic AUR is not a part of Arch any more than a PPA I may or may not be running from a server in my closet is part of Ubuntu. You can make your own repo from a server in a closet that ships XLibre compiled for Arch, and it would have the same relevancy for Arch as the Chaotic AUR would.

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

If the Debian maintainers think that Hyprland shouldn't be on Debian, then why is Hyprland still in Debian Sid?

Beside the point isn't it? They didn't include it in trixie for mundane reasons..

Xiota is a contributor of the Chaotic AUR, not a member of Arch

Yes, making quite a bit of noise, supporting closing of requests.. being a nuisance in general.

The AUR is, and it has no issues with XLibre, it looks like.

Ok, it's not enough.

[SuperDuperDeou]

If the Debian maintainers think that Hyprland shouldn't be on Debian, then why is Hyprland still in Debian Sid?

Beside the point isn't it? They didn't include it in trixie for mundane reasons..

They had issues in the whole stack during freeze, that's enough of a reason. If they decided to not ship Hyprland for political reason, as you claim, then it probably wouldn't be in Sid.

Xiota is a contributor of the Chaotic AUR, not a member of Arch

Yes, making quite a bit of noise, supporting closing of requests.. being a nuisance in general.

Random people rambling on the internet exist, deal with it.

The AUR is, and it has no issues with XLibre, it looks like.

Ok, it's not enough.

On what ground? As XLibre is still in beta, shipping it in place of XOrg with little testing is every last bit jumping on an hype train, even on Artix it seems that XLibre will stay on gemlins for quite a bit. There is the AUR package, and that's good enough for the time being (the Chaotic AUR is a different thing and unaffiliated with Arch, please don't bring it up again or I'll punch you through the internet). You can put binary packages in the AUR (they all share the -bin suffix), if you think it's warranted, go ahead and ship it instead of complaining, nobody is stopping you.

[EeyoreTheDonkee]

My feelings pretty much coincide with those of https://linuxiac.com/the-curious-case-of-xlibre-xserver/ - It's a professional article, better than I could hope to write (the only thing I disagree with is the amount of words spent discussing Enrico - i.e. the leader point is a red herring - 6 words - ok 7, I would have spent on it); it isn't a hyped article.

Anyway, Xlibre should be taken as a snap-in replacement (by the distros); this will give it a significant number of users automatically; then it could attempt to push through enhancements via process. But, it will fade in the AUR if that's the only home it has open to it.

It's wholly implausible to try to morph it into something else on the AUR and then somehow make another PR attempt to gain traction. Also, again, if Xlibre does morph, I (personally) would want it to carry its working heritage along, perhaps even expand on it. Perhaps lower hanging fruit than wrestling with uncooperative, new, hardware and systems.

go ahead and ship it instead of complaining, nobody is stopping you.

I'd rather complain. That's what this thread is about anyway and it's not just Arch that has to be convinced to adopt.

[reaperx7]

The AUR at least does give us a chance through the voting system. That'll convince ArchLinux. Even if we can at least get a mention in the ArchWiki, we're ahead by miles.

The adoption will come when X simply can't keep up with Xlibre. CVEs are nice, but they aren't true updates.

[Ryu945]

Honestly, has politics poisoned FOSS this badly? Has this poisonous mindset just allowed people to write off bad designs and bad software as "Okay" because of them not liking someone's personal beliefs? I thought FOSS was about anyone being able to contribute in some way, projects being forked to allow continuous development should the need arise?

I have noticed this same mentallity in projects like OBS, Homeassistant and Mastodon. I saw it to a much lesser extent in other projects. These type of people have somehow gotten controlled of many FOSS projects. It only underscores why we need alternatives to projects like these.

[reaperx7]

One of the worst problems is dealing with the exclusionary politics that haunt FOSS. It's a problem as old as FOSS.

Some developers have such a bad ego and power trip, they want either monetary contributions to include newer features, or they want you, a user with no development skills to implement it yourself, because "they're too busy".

Storytime kids... Gather round and grab a root beer...

I saw this actually with an SNES emulator project years ago called ZSnes. The developers were completely toxic towards people asking for fixes and updates to APIs. When I asked once about supporting 96KHz audio output, I was met with "pay me $100 and I'll do it for a one off release by the head developer" to which I replied "Why? You guys have been wasting time developing eye candy for over a year and haven't fixed any bugs in the emulator core." to which the head developer outright banned me from the community and then went on a tyraid towards me post-ban telling everyone how a nobody in the community dared to ask him about "his" code and refused to bow to him. Needless to say ZSnes is now dead as a project because the devs gave up on it and took the updated forked sources private and suspended their usage of GPLv3.

[callmetango]

Things improved quite a lot so please have a look at X11Libre Xlibre On Other Distributions · Discussions · GitHub and it's "surroundings".