Keisha Defrost

[MadMoll]

Hey.
I can not see or change the defrost setting (man/auto) anybody on the way to include this?

The reason is, I have one week behind me with 0-5 Celsius and it seems, that the heating pump, just defrost every 3 hours.

Complete nonsense if you ask me, no change in COP.

Anybody with clues or other experiences?

Right now I try to find signals when a defrost is really necessary, e.g. with COP or pressure.
I installed a camera so I must not go out at a cold day, but when I sleep or at work I cannot check or not so often.

Coming back to my request, it may make sense to activate it later again, when the temperature is much lower.

But doing this on display is not very comfortable.

Happy for any ideas.

Best.

Edit: And a lot of additional inverter starts, every defrost plus 2, yes, this is a lot in 24 hours...

[geduxas]

Defrost is done by it's own logic, read your's pump service manual, it well described. Also it's possible to force defrost by user.

So bit confused, what do you want to know?

[MadMoll]

I don't have that in my manual, if you have it from Panasonic, even if it is not from my system, a link is welcome.

The only logic I see via the logs (with outside temperature between 0-5) is it does it every 3 hours, which is wasting of energy.

1. I would like to see and change the Defrost Mode, without going to the display.

2. Also interested if someone has a programmatic solution with Force Defrost setting and Defrost Mode set to man I can learn and participate from.

Best.

[geduxas]

I don't think you can set defrost in manual mode, it will defrost acording this graph. It's depends on outdoor temperature and temperature on pipe near evaporator.

You should search for service manual, not user manual or installer.

[MadMoll]

Thank you very much, that was helpful!

Every time the defrost starts, I send me a message:

Defrost Waermepumpe START! Pipe Out / In 34.0/3.0 Hi/Lo 20.6 / 0.0 OUTlet/INlet 34.5 /32.2 Tmp Puf/Out 32.5 / 4.0 COP/FAN 4.0 330 Pow In/Out 437 / 1763 Comp. Cur/Freq 2.0 / 21

I don't want to bore out with that messages, so this should be enough, but it is always like this, no minus on pipe, except 2 times.

I will add the pipe to the log and see if the message is too slow.

Again, thanks!

[geduxas]

I still don't understand, you do defrost manually? What for?

[MadMoll]

It is doing to defrost every 3 hours, even there is no ice crystal. Means + 2 inverter stars and lost of puffer temperature

[MiG-41]

In such temperatures like +5degrees and below Defrost is normal thing.

You don’t see ice on outer unit just before ?

And there is no such thing likę manual Defrost….
yo can to Force Defrost earlier , but later HP will do Defrost anyway when detect that it is necessary, and generally it Works very good.
If there is no ice and HP is doing Defrost ,or oppossite IF there is huge ice and HP is not doing it ,then mostku it is case with temperature sensors (Faulty or not in its possition)

[geduxas]

I think this auto/manual thing is from newer models, where you can pick manually from which heat source to do defrost.. dhw/room..

[MadMoll]

There is no ice on it, but my first winter and I drive on highest quiet level to reduce inverter starts.
With setting it to manual, it stops defrosting.
Did not try yet, but there is a command and will try as soon it is necessary: panasonic_heat_pump/commands/SetForceDefrost

[geduxas]

@MadMoll what is your heatpump model? I think you misunderstood something :)

[MiG-41]

But it is for sure not called auto/manual … And at the end not influencing on Defrost it self ( HP decide if it is time for Defrost , by this option you can only choose from with circuit heat will be taken for Defrost)

[geduxas]

If i remember correctly it was defrost auto (pump decides which heat source to pick) / manual (you choose which heat source to pick)

Maybe not.. i am confused.. could you clarify @MadMoll ?

[MadMoll]

You can change source, I have no warm water, I only use it for heating my house.
Lett me make some pictures to show you before and after set defrost from AUTO to MAN.

[MiG-41]

I remember this like Normal - so Defrost is from actual circuit or Only DHW….

[MadMoll]

Yes and I take circuit because I have not DHW.

[MiG-41]

Do if you don’t have DHW this option should work same no Mater in witch option it is… ((or IF Panasonic would be more inteligent should not show this option when DHW is disabled….)

[MadMoll]

Circuit is default, so I made no changes, but of course I went through all settings with the manual.

[MadMoll]

On the first wan you that I shot down the pump to switch defrost from AUTO to MAN.
Then it stops defrosting, and I looked on the camera every hour, all good.

On the second picture, you see the two days before with 5 defrost in 24 hours what are then 10 inverter starts on top, with no need.

[MiG-41]

two days before with 5 defrost in 24 hours what are then 10 inverter starts on top, with no need.

So let’s start from this , why no need? Outer unit had no ice?
This will tell Outdoor Pipe Temperaturę vs Outdoor Temperature in this particular moment

[MadMoll]

Yes, absolutely no ice. I do not look at it in the night, but I have a lot of cases, where I went out and later looked on the camera and there was no ice.

[MadMoll]

This is the setting, sorry it is in German.

And this was all information I found in the manual.

Manual defrosting
If automatic selection is set,
the outdoor unit starts
defrosting operation at low
outdoor temperatures and long
heating times.

[MiG-41]

So it is Auto/Manual…. My mistake.
But it is not connected with DHW at all (but my German is very poor). Looks like additional „Inteligent”for Defrost….But i don’t know what exacly that gives….

[MadMoll]

There is a different option for choosing if circuit or DHW, but I have no DHW.
This stops the automatic defrost completely. (Not sure if there is an emergency overwrite if pump find out there is everything blocked)
Now I have to-do it I and I try to do it with code.

[geduxas]

@MiG-41 here is from enghlish manual :D it's Force Defrost mode.. it could be made manual, or automatic.. it's somwthing new :D we had it always manual.. now it could be run by automation.. what's for? who knows :D

[geduxas]

[MadMoll]

And long is 3 hours? ;)
Thanks for all your input.
Will have an eye on it and report if you want.

[MadMoll]

And, if Manual was default, I must have changed it, because I thought that makes sense....

[geduxas]

Keep it on manual.. its not what you think. Its just to make deforst if pump runs for a while and logic is not triggering it's defrost..

[MadMoll]

Yes I see it, my mistake and a bit of translation. How translates Force Defrost to Manual Abtauen, which is Manual Defrost, what I not want to do...

Again thanks, all helpful for me, will close.

[MadMoll]

👍🏼