diff --git a/documentation/src/main/asciidoc/userguide/chapters/domain/collections.adoc b/documentation/src/main/asciidoc/userguide/chapters/domain/collections.adoc
index 4c21b0d692c0..c59f24821898 100644
--- a/documentation/src/main/asciidoc/userguide/chapters/domain/collections.adoc
+++ b/documentation/src/main/asciidoc/userguide/chapters/domain/collections.adoc
@@ -285,7 +285,7 @@ is available to have Hibernate interpret a `List` with no `@OrderColumn` and no
 An ID_BAG is similar to a BAG, except that it maps a generated, per-row identifier into the collection
 table.  `@CollectionId` is the annotation to configure this identifier.
 
-For details about defining an id-bad identifier, see the Javadocs for:
+For details about defining an id-bag identifier, see the Javadocs for:
 
 * link:{javadoc-base}/org/hibernate/annotations/CollectionId.html[@CollectionId]
 * link:{javadoc-base}/org/hibernate/annotations/CollectionIdJavaClass.html[@CollectionIdJavaClass]
diff --git a/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/collection/spi/AbstractPersistentCollection.java b/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/collection/spi/AbstractPersistentCollection.java
index 2aa1e7f477d0..d657c9d2cfbe 100644
--- a/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/collection/spi/AbstractPersistentCollection.java
+++ b/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/collection/spi/AbstractPersistentCollection.java
@@ -177,9 +177,6 @@ protected boolean readSize() {
 									read();
 								}
 							}
-							else {
-								throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
-							}
 							return false;
 						}
 				);
@@ -193,9 +190,9 @@ public int getSize() {
 			return cachedSize;
 		}
 		else {
+			throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 			final var entry = getCollectionEntry();
 			if ( entry == null ) {
-				throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 				throwLazyInitializationException( "collection not associated with session" );
 				throw new AssertionFailure( "impossible" );
 			}
@@ -373,9 +370,9 @@ protected Boolean readElementExistence(final Object element) {
 
 	@Override
 	public boolean elementExists(Object element) {
+		throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 		final var entry = getCollectionEntry();
 		if ( entry == null ) {
-			throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 			throwLazyInitializationException( "collection not associated with session" );
 			throw new AssertionFailure( "impossible" );
 		}
@@ -413,9 +410,9 @@ protected Object readElementByIndex(final Object index) {
 
 	@Override
 	public Object elementByIndex(Object index) {
+		throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 		final var entry = getCollectionEntry();
 		if ( entry == null ) {
-			throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 			throwLazyInitializationException( "collection not associated with session" );
 			throw new AssertionFailure( "impossible" );
 		}
diff --git a/hibernate-core/src/test/java/org/hibernate/orm/test/collection/basic/DetachedElementTest.java b/hibernate-core/src/test/java/org/hibernate/orm/test/collection/basic/DetachedElementTest.java
new file mode 100644
index 000000000000..74067ede6820
--- /dev/null
+++ b/hibernate-core/src/test/java/org/hibernate/orm/test/collection/basic/DetachedElementTest.java
@@ -0,0 +1,166 @@
+/*
+ * SPDX-License-Identifier: Apache-2.0
+ * Copyright Red Hat Inc. and Hibernate Authors
+ */
+package org.hibernate.orm.test.collection.basic;
+
+
+import jakarta.persistence.Entity;
+import jakarta.persistence.Id;
+import jakarta.persistence.ManyToOne;
+import jakarta.persistence.OneToMany;
+import org.hibernate.Hibernate;
+import org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException;
+import org.hibernate.dialect.H2Dialect;
+import org.hibernate.testing.orm.junit.DomainModel;
+import org.hibernate.testing.orm.junit.RequiresDialect;
+import org.hibernate.testing.orm.junit.SessionFactory;
+import org.hibernate.testing.orm.junit.SessionFactoryScope;
+import org.junit.jupiter.api.Test;
+
+import java.util.ArrayList;
+import java.util.HashMap;
+import java.util.List;
+import java.util.Map;
+
+import static org.junit.jupiter.api.Assertions.assertDoesNotThrow;
+import static org.junit.jupiter.api.Assertions.assertEquals;
+import static org.junit.jupiter.api.Assertions.assertFalse;
+import static org.junit.jupiter.api.Assertions.assertThrows;
+import static org.junit.jupiter.api.Assertions.assertTrue;
+
+
+/**
+ * @author Jan Schatteman
+ */
+@DomainModel(
+		annotatedClasses = {DetachedElementTest.EntityWithList.class, DetachedElementTest.ListElement.class,
+				DetachedElementTest.EntityWithMap.class, DetachedElementTest.MapElement.class}
+)
+@SessionFactory
+@RequiresDialect( H2Dialect.class )
+public class DetachedElementTest {
+
+	@Test
+	public void testList(SessionFactoryScope scope) {
+		scope.inSession(
+				session -> {
+					session.getTransaction().begin();
+					EntityWithList parent = new EntityWithList(1);
+					ListElement element = new ListElement(2, parent);
+					session.persist( parent );
+					session.persist( element );
+					session.getTransaction().commit();
+					session.clear();
+
+					// shouldn't throw exceptions for these operations
+					assertDoesNotThrow(
+							() -> {
+								assertEquals( 1, parent.children.size() );
+								assertFalse( parent.children.isEmpty() );
+								assertTrue( parent.children.contains(element) );
+								assertTrue( parent.children.remove(element) );
+							}
+					);
+
+					assertThrows( LazyInitializationException.class,
+							() -> Hibernate.get(parent.children, 0)
+					);
+				}
+		);
+	}
+
+	@Test
+	void testMap(SessionFactoryScope scope) {
+		scope.inSession(
+				session -> {
+				session.getTransaction().begin();
+				EntityWithMap parent = new EntityWithMap(1);
+				MapElement element = new MapElement(2, parent);
+				session.persist(parent);
+				session.persist(element);
+				session.getTransaction().commit();
+				session.clear();
+
+					// shouldn't throw exceptions for these operations
+					assertDoesNotThrow(
+							() -> {
+								assertEquals( 1, parent.children.size() );
+								assertFalse( parent.children.isEmpty() );
+								assertTrue( parent.children.containsKey(element.id) );
+								assertTrue( parent.children.containsValue(element) );
+							}
+					);
+
+					assertThrows( LazyInitializationException.class,
+							() -> Hibernate.get(parent.children, 2L)
+					);
+			}
+		);
+	}
+
+	@Entity
+	public static class EntityWithList {
+		@Id
+		long id;
+
+		@OneToMany(mappedBy = "parent")
+		List<ListElement> children = new ArrayList<>();
+
+		public EntityWithList(int id) {
+			this.id = id;
+		}
+
+		protected EntityWithList() {}
+	}
+
+	@Entity
+	public static class ListElement {
+		@Id
+		long id;
+
+		@ManyToOne
+		private EntityWithList parent;
+
+		public ListElement(long id, EntityWithList parent) {
+			this.id = id;
+			this.parent = parent;
+			parent.children.add(this);
+		}
+
+		protected ListElement() {}
+	}
+
+	@Entity
+	public static class EntityWithMap {
+		@Id
+		long id;
+
+		@OneToMany(mappedBy = "parent")
+		Map<Long, MapElement> children = new HashMap<>();
+
+		public EntityWithMap(int id) {
+			this.id = id;
+		}
+
+		protected EntityWithMap() {}
+	}
+
+	@Entity
+	public static class MapElement {
+		@Id
+		long id;
+
+		@ManyToOne
+		private EntityWithMap parent;
+
+		public MapElement(long id, EntityWithMap parent) {
+			this.id = id;
+			this.parent = parent;
+			parent.children.put(id, this);
+		}
+
+		protected MapElement() {}
+	}
+
+}