Pre Charge (Resistor) required when Inverter is getting switched on? #145
Replies: 14 comments 56 replies
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Good question, in the Forum of akkudoktor you can also find some discussions regarding this: https://www.akkudoktor.net/forum/neue-ideen/micro-inverter-an-batteriespeicher-betreiben/ I don't think that you can destroy the battery, because the time until the resistors are loaded is probably just too short to damage the battery. But it could be a problem for the capacitors, because batteries are not officially supported on the Hoymiles micro inverters and the manafacturer probably didn't implement a current limiting for the capacitors. You can only use Hoymiles with a battery at your own risk. For this reason I would not use any relais in my circuit or let the voltage guard for daily cutoff. I was looking for an automatic precharge circuit for some time, but didn't find anything working out of the box or maybe just one thing that was quite expensive, don't remember anymore. My personal recommendation (how I do it):
I personally use a Pylontech battery. I bought it because it was advertised with current limiting and a soft-start feature. |
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I use a HM-300 and maybe you could use a HM-600 without pre-charge. But I doubt, that you should try it with big kw inverters. Everything is on your own risk, because we are outside of the intended use case scenarios of the manufactures. But I think @berni2288 recommendations are good. |
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@berni2288 How does the setup handle situations like this:
At the same time, panels produce: A.) 600W - Will these 600W go straight into the battery or will 500W from the MPPT go straight into the inverter and the remaining 100W will go into the battery? I am trying to grasp the flow of energy in the system and how it handles situations where the panels produce enough or more energy that needed in the household. I am thinking that this need should go straight into the inverter, without going into the battery first. Is this possible or is all energy going into the battery first? And when the battery is full all additionally produced energy is absorbed (wasted)? B.) 300W - Will the 300W go into the battery first and then the battery is feeding 500W into the inverter? Or will the 300W go straight into the inverter and the inverter pulls the gap of 200W from the battery? I hope I could address my points or level of unclarity in an understandable fashion. |
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Some time ago I found a power limiter board on this discord channel: https://discord.com/channels/984173303147155506/1060347063281401876/1080114933473222779 IMHO this is exactly what's necessary when your battery has no soft-start function. |
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What if the battery would be always connected? I would only switch the inverter on the AC side if the SOC (or battery voltage) would drop below limits. Then charge the battery and only switch the inverter AC on when the battery is charged. |
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Prototyped a PCB based on the discussion and files shared above. Lets see how this plays out. |
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Why not use an relay with 30A (they are relative cheap vor 24V) where the NO is connected to the inverter and the NC is connected via an an pre charge resistor to the inverter. Lest say the battery connects than the pre charge resistor would limit the current in to the inverter. If the input voltage is above lets say Vbat -20 % turn on the relay? After the Relais is turned on we are ready to set the power limit. I think therefore its the best to make sure that the inverter has 0W output at the restart configured. This would only need 1 pin and 1 relay more plus an InverterInrushCurrentLimitter or SoftStart-Function (you name it^^) in the program? All required data is coming from the Inverter already so we can use it. Maybe the time it takes to start up the inverter and talk for the first time to the system would be enough, so that there is no need to use the Vbat -20% trigger? Can any one tell who long it takes for an 48V system? |
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Final version of the single channel version which I ordered. Still need to find a reasonable shop to print a case. |
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IRFZ34PBF Current status of 24V Setup with HM-300, 16A & 8A AC chargers: 1 - Shelly UNI to monitor Battery SOC in Homeassistant |
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Im Akkudoktor Forum wurde gerade interessante und dabei sehr einfache Lösung vorgeschlagen (wobei die Schaltung aus einem anderem Forum stand) Es sind nur wenige Bauteile nötig, und die Verlustleistung hält sich in Grenzen |
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ich weiss nicht, ob ich es hier schon gefragt habe? Das Ladegerät liefert maximal etwas mehr als die Leckströme und Selbstentladung + hält die Batterie auch im Winter auf ca. 18V. Die Längsdiode verhindert, dass die Solarpanels oder eine über 18V geladene Batterie das Ladegerät grillen. Mein Problem dabei: Seit 1993 habe ich keine Induktivitäten und keine Kondensator-Ladekurven mehr berechnet. Habe echt kaum noch einen Plan, wie das ging. Die Elkos im HM-300 dürften inzwischen bekannt sein, irgendwer hatte mal einen aufgeschraubt. 2x 20.000µF meine ich, gelesen zu haben, kann das hinkommen? Die zweite, noch beklopptere Idee wäre, ein zweites 12..18V Netzteil (ich sage hier absichtlich nicht "Ladegerät", ob wohl das auch ginge) an den HM-Eingang zu hängen, um die Elkos bei Laune zu halten. Wenn man mit Dioden arbeitet, kann man das sogar aus dem selben LG holen, das die Batterie über den Winter rettet. Je nach Diode gehen da auch paar mW in Abwärme, aber das ist einfacher und weniger Fehleranfällig, als die MOSFET-Lösung, nicht wahr? Diskussion willkommen! |
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und was ist mit NTCs? Es gäbe übrigens auch schon fertige Limiter, als fertige Bauteile von VPT oder Loreme ... nur schwer, an einen Distri zu kommen. |
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Hallo, Der MPPT 75/15 hat eine "Sanft-Einschaltung". Theoretisch kann er eine elektrische Ladung von ca. 0,1As liefern. HM-300 direkt an MPPT75/15 geht also nicht. Aber... die Nennleistung von 300W sind auch noch ein Problem Vermutlich muss ich doch den HM-300 direkt an den LiFePo4 anschließen. @modem-man-gmx Im NTC Datenblatt findet man normalerweise eine Kennlinie, die den Widerstand bei einem |
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So ganz verstanden habe ich noch nicht warum der HM-300 15.5A zieht. Laut Datenblatt sind es 11.5 A. Das entspricht auch ziemlich gut der Leistung, die ich aus dem Inverter mit meiner 24V Batterie bekomme, wenn ich noch ca. 5% Verlust (DC->AC) mit einberechne: 24V * 11.5 A * 0.95 = 262 W AC |
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I am trying to grasp how onBattery works and whether there are still any risks to damage the inverter and/or battery when the system is switched on again, after it has been off due to a empty battery.
For example the battery has been drained over night and needs to be charged on the next day. How is this handled when the battery is full again? Will there/Can there be situations where high switch on currents can occur?
I came across this topic due to this post Here and comments on YT and other forums.
I don’t want to destroy the battery (or inverter) and wonder if additional hardware is required to enforce a soft start of the inverter.
I understand a battery protect is not intended to switch a inverter on the DC side.
What are your thoughts?
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