wizard mode for tkinter UI

[glowinthedark]

moving discussion from #720

on first try the wizard is even more confusing than the classic UI — first it won't allow drag-n-dropping a file from whatever file manager the OS is using (of course, the classic UI doesn't either), and secondly, the wizard asks to pick a file which does not exist yet (or is it a folder?). If it is a folder, then maybe the same folder as the original file would be good enough as the default choice?

But then the format selection gets mysterious, since the extension would be the only hint for the format which imo forces even higher cognitive load on the user. There is no format drop-down in either Input or Output screen, only on the final screen.

Step 2 displays no context about what selection was made on step one, the only hint is the Previous button. Maybe the 3rd step can be omitted?

Or, for example, the context on previous steps can be included in current step so that that when the user gets to step 3 they get the same UI as the classic dialog.

I understand that vanilla tkinter has no drag-n-drop, but there seems to be tkinterdnd2, not 💯 sure if this the the correct fork, apparently the original repo is unmaintained.

[glowinthedark]

regarding tkinterdnd2, according to https://techgaun.github.io/active-forks/index.html#https://github.com/pmgagne/tkinterdnd2 looks like the most up-to-date fork is:

• https://github.com/Eliav2/tkinterdnd2

[ilius]

the wizard asks to pick a file which does not exist yet (or is it a folder?)

This is actually one of the two modes (Open mode and Save mode) in "File chooser dialogs" in all operating systems. In "Save" mode, you type the name of file (but can optionally change the folder as well). That's what you see when you press Ctrl+S (or Command+S) in most apps. The only question is, does this dialog look like the standard "Save File" dialog (that users are used to) in each operating system.

• On Linux it does not: File name input should be on top, not below file browser
• On Windows: looks okay, I just tested it (you can try Ctrl+S on any web page to compare)
• On Mac: Looks perfect. Simple and clear.

then maybe the same folder as the original file would be good enough as the default choice?

That's a good point. Only it wasn't for glossaries that can be folders themselves, and user selects the folder. We don't want to create the output folder inside input folder, and with same name! The logic for this depends on format, so it's a bit tricky.

But then the format selection gets mysterious, since the extension would be the only hint for the format which imo forces even higher cognitive load on the user. There is no format drop-down in either Input or Output screen, only on the final screen

Actually there is. But instead of a drop-down menu for 50 items, it's 2 buttons in Page 3 (Input Format and Output Format) that opens a small dialog where you can search the format name. Either the format is auto-detected from extension or you have to select it (you can change it even if auto-selected). This is basically the same as classic UI.

https://github.com/Eliav2/tkinterdnd2

This would be nice! Thanks.

Also, we can get AI make a Wizard-based Qt6 (PyQt or PySides) interface for us that solves many of the problems we are having with Tkinter. And update Windows and Mac build workflows to include it. What do you think?

[glowinthedark]

Qt is of course a nicer, more modern and overall better choice but also heavier dependencies. If a qt flavour can be built in a github runner that would be great, nuitka has plugins for PyQt6 that can be enabled with --plugin-enable=pyqt6 / --plugin-enable=pyside6. I think I tried it in the past on a bare mac some time ago but got lost in dependencies but maybe things have improved since then.

The wizard is definitely a good option for general users who struggle with complex UIs but maybe the number of steps can be reduced to the bare minimum?

This is an example of Keka, a simple file archiver for mac, it registers itself to open specific file extensions from the OS file manager, but archiving is done by dragging a file or folder onto the app window, no steps, no actual wizard, but maybe a useful approach?

In Keka on drag enter event the dialog changes to a big drag zone with the the text Drag here to convert, and then the next dialog is a save file picker with a suggested best guess file name that the user just confirms or edits and confirms, and then everything is done.

The destination format is the top right dropdown in the original window:

Also in Keka's preferences there is a Save to location, which can be Ask each time, Next to original file, or Custom folder...

This is, of course, a simplified use case, but in concept it is a converter, like pyglossary.

Having the ability to open pyglossary from the OS file manager context menu like Open With would be nice too but probably not easily done in a cross-platform ways, although I think I have added a few dictionary file extensions in the windows Inno installer

pyglossary/.github/scripts/win/inno_setup.iss

Line 11 in e1e6660

#define MyAppAssocExt ".dsl"

although haven't checked what actually happens on windows when e.g. a .mdx file is double-clicked from Explorer.

[glowinthedark]

a claude session for possible UI/UX approaches; not sure how helpful it is, the prompt's focus was on high-level approach not actual implementation, maybe I didn't polish it well:

• https://claude.ai/share/24ad6f3d-dd69-4dbd-94ee-f7607c02be34 .

the screen mockup generated as part of the session, apparently, mermaid and the mockup are not rendered via shared links; mermaid diagrams can be rendered online via https://mermaid.ai/live or, for example in vscode inside a markdown file as a ```mermaid codeblock + mermaid plugin

• https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/5d0e460a-db88-490e-a97c-dabb0f8baa9b (NOTE that the A, B, C buttons are clickable, each representing a different approach)

📎 file_converter_ux_mockups.html the mockups, click A, B, C to see proposed variants

[ilius]

I changed the Step 2 (output file).

[glowinthedark]

thanks! maybe I am too picky, but still see there is unnecessary cognitive load and more clicks than necessary, a bit against python's philosophy of reasonable defaults.

1. Splitting in Step 2 the folder and the target file name causes a bit of neuro-cognitive friction; folder is non-editable, with a choice of presets in the dropdown, and the file name is a separate field which introduces more complexity compared to the existing classic dialog. Having an editable field with an autogenerated absolute path including the file name would save the user the effort of typing and unnecessary thinking too long before clicking Next. The output extension (i.e. the output format) can be some default (or last used format) so that the user simply can click Next and accept the proposal rather than having to think... 🤔 🤔 🤔 and then type something that will probably be a duplicate of the original file name but with a different extension.
2. The explicit dropdown for Output format (Step 3) is decoupled from the Output file name (Step 2) — imo too much mental load and too much info to remember, making it even harder than the classic UI.
3. In Step 3 Input and Output files are both read-only with no context about their parent folders — looks like too much mystery with no ability to understand what's happening without clicking Previous/Next. Read only fields perceptually make me feel helpless and frustrated.
4. Step 4: again, read-only text about the actual paths/folders/formats with no way to change them without clicking Previous-Previous-Previous and then Next-Next-Next - frustrating and time-consuming.

Would be great to hear what other app users think, with different backgrounds and different levels of computer familiarity. My perspective might be too narrow, also, I might be too blunt and direct. ;)