Loops Course Handouts (7/1983) into Bibliography?

[MattHeffron]

I've scanned my original paper handouts from the Loops Course that @hjellinek and I attended in July 1983.
I created a placeholder entry (type: Manuscript) and attached the 22 PDF files to that.
This is not under the exported to interlisp.org/bibliography collection; rather, it is in the access needed to attached document collection.
Zotero: Introduction to Interlisp-D and Introduction to Knowledge Programming in Loops — A Combined Course

A few questions:

• This seems appropriate to put into the bibliography, right?
• Attachment 03a is a copy (preprint?) of an article that was published in Datamation (2/1983). At first I wasn't going to include it as I wasn't clear on the copyright status. I found that it is included in the Blue and White CIS-5 (revised) at bitsavers, so I guess the copyright is OK.
  • Aside: We already have an earlier revision of that CIS-5 in the bibliography, but it doesn't include this paper.
  • The Datamation article seems to have been included as a chapter in the book "Readings in Artificial Intelligence and Software Engineering", and is behind a paywall.
• Since Zotero doesn't appear to have an item specifically to represent a collection of parts, like this, I hacked this structure. Is there a better way to represent this?
• Our bibliography, currently, doesn't have a way to present multiple parts (attachments, or child URLs). Should this be an enhancement to what we currently have (just separate entries)? There are other multi-part documents in the current bibliography.
• My "Abstract" is more of a description of where these files came from, rather than a coherent Abstract of the whole. Wordsmithing is welcome.

Comments, suggestions, etc. welcome.

[hjellinek]

@Eleanor-Young, can you comment?

[Anzus]

Is there any overlap with the OSU/Batelle Loops Course?

…

On Jan 10, 2026, at 7:40 PM, Matt Heffron ***@***.***> wrote: I've scanned my original paper handouts from the Loops Course that @hjellinek and I attended in July 1983. I created a placeholder entry (type: Manuscript) and attached the 22 PDF files to that. This is not under the exported to interlisp.org/bibliography collection; rather, it is in the access needed to attached document collection. Zotero: Introduction to Interlisp-D and Introduction to Knowledge Programming in Loops — A Combined Course A few questions: • This seems appropriate to put into the bibliography, right? • Attachment 03a is a copy (preprint?) of an article that was published in Datamation (2/1983). At first I wasn't going to include it as I wasn't clear on the copyright status. I found that it is included in the Blue and White CIS-5 (revised) at bitsavers, so I guess the copyright is OK. • Aside: We already have an earlier revision of that CIS-5 in the bibliography, but it doesn't include this paper. • Since Zotero doesn't appear to have an item specifically to represent a collection of parts, like this, I hacked this structure. Is there a better way to represent this? • Our bibliography, currently, doesn't have a way to present multiple parts (attachments, or child URLs). Should this be an enhancement to what we currently have (just separate entries)? There are other multi-part documents in the current bibliography. • My "Abstract" is more of a description of where these files came from, rather than a coherent Abstract of the whole. Wordsmithing is welcome. Comments, suggestions, etc. welcome. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[MattHeffron]

How would I know?

[MattHeffron]

The access needed to attached document collection in Zotero was created re: issue #2344, and relates to: issue #2098.
We've discussed the attached document issue a few times, but we haven't nailed down a location, moved files there, and set the URL in Zotero to correspond.

[Eleanor-Young]

1. This definitely seems appropriate for the Bibliography. Thanks for adding it!
2. Yeah, that should be fine. As for the newer revision version of Papers on Interlisp-D, I added the new version to Zotero as a separate entry for Papers on Interlisp-D. That should definitely be in there too, so now it is.
3. I'm not sure there's a better way in Zotero, other than merging all the PDFs into one. I'm also not sure there's anything necessarily wrong with just keeping it as separate PDFs, but I think elsewhere we decided we'd rather have a single PDF, but those cases could be different. Depends, really, but I think in this case it could go either way, and either is fine.
4. It would be nice if it listed all the attachments in a lil list on the page, or something. At least, that's what first comes to mind.
5. Your abstract seems fine, though I think I'll move it to a Note on the item, and make it clear who the first person there is referring to.

[MattHeffron]

@Eleanor-Young This is OK, but I think that some Abstract would be good in order to have some text in the initial bibliography entry and in the individual item page.
Also, the Note (former Abstract) isn't displayed to the user at all on the Bibliography entry, but only within Zotero. So it's not particularly useful at the present.
Showing some notes on the individual entry page probably should be added. (And need a way to indicate which to show.)

This structure is very similar to that of the TEdit and Sketch User's Guide entries.
User's Guide to TEdit
User's Guide to Sketch
This same process could be used for these LOOPS handouts, once we decide that's where (our Google Drive/Interlisp/history-sources/) we want to put documents in the Bibliography with no other reliable location, per issue #2098.
It still could be nice to also link to the individual documents from the individual entry page.

[MattHeffron]

It didn't occur to me that the Google Drive/Interlisp/history-sources/ was a private folder. It worked for me to get there from the Bibliography, but it will fail for almost anyone else.
This was discussed in the January 21, 2026 meeting. The plan is that these TEdit and Sketch User's Guides will be copied to locations under files.interlisp.org, and the URLs in Zotero will be updated to the public locations.
That still leaves open the question of location for other files that need to be hosted.

[pamoroso]

Concerning the storage location issue #2098 is related.