Reflectance standard name variations #429
Replies: 14 comments 10 replies
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Dear Martin @mraspaud I think your first suggestion is best, because it includes the two existing standard names We could say In your reference there's π in the numerator, but there isn't in wikipedia. Can you explain this? I guess it's something to do with solid angle. I notice that the help for Best wishes Jonathan |
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I was discussing this with a coworker and he made a good point and I'm wondering if there are examples of this in CF: The So we're taking the standard name of the reflectance ( |
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@JonathanGregory thanks a lot for your input! Regarding your question, my understanging is that the reflectance in our domain (earth-observation satellite remote-sensing) make the assumption of isotropic diffusion, and thus we can integrate over the half sphere. This assumption is of course wrong most of the times, but since we usually don't really know what we are looking at (what is the surface made of? what is the content of the atmosphere on this light path?), it's a compromise we make. Again, just my understanding of the question. |
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David @djhoese and Martin @mraspaud, thanks for your comments.
That's a good point. It's quite often the case that there's more than one way you can describe something, which is what standard names do. We try to find a description which is simple, clear, and as consistent as possible with usual terminology (although that's less important than being self-explanatory). I am not sure I've understood this quantity. Would it be correct to describe it as the ratio of the shortwave flux (received at the instrument, per
Ah, I see. Is that perhaps why it's called "bidirectional reflectance", depends on two angles and is dimensionless, whereas the object described by wikipedia is the "bidirectional reflectance distribution function", which depends on four angles and is in |
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Hello @JonathanGregory , all, I have some extra ideas about this (after some discussion in a satpy meeting). The back-stepping mentioned by @djhoese makes sense for my intuition. What is measured is the toa radiance within the instrument's spectral band (say L). Then, L is normalized by the incoming solar irradiance (in the same spectral band), and that is always between 0 and 1. But we also know that L will be proportional to the cosine of the solar zenith angle and can divide by it to neutralize (or try to as atmospheric effects are still left out) the geometry dependence. From this point of view, we take the ratio of "toa_outgoing_radiance_per_unit_wavelength" by "solar_irradiance_per_unit_wavelength". But that maybe a bit long. Note: those quantities are both defined in CF :-) In GOES files for instance, you can find the following quantities: I hope that this helps to move forward for this issue. |
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Dear all We agreed that the quantity we want to name equals the TOA bidirectional reflectance multiplied by the cosine of the solar zenith angle. Earlier, I asked whether the TOA bidirectional reflectance is the ratio of the shortwave flux (received at the instrument, per The help for @pdebuyl writes that the quantity we want to name is calculated as the ratio of As you see, I'm not clear about these concepts yet. More explanation and insight would be useful. 😃 Best wishes Jonathan |
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Hello all, update on the units:
So, CF's Dropping the cosine, we have " So we have "ratio of product of |
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@gerritholl @mraspaud @djhoese @JonathanGregory and @pdebuyl had a video meeting about the topic. Here is the summary:
Options:
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Thank you, everyone, for the useful discussion yesterday, and your helpful explanation to me of the concepts involved. Thank you, Pierre @pdebuyl, for the above summary. I would add a couple of points:
Cheers, Jonathan |
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The shorter names From the OSIRIS-REx Asteroid Sample Return Mission Algorithm Descriptions- Spectral Analysis, compiled by Driss Takir, Beth Clark, Christian Drouet d’Aubigny, Jian-Yang Li, Carl Hergenrother, Josh Emery, and Bonnie Buratti, available from the University of Arizona, sourcing Hapke, B. 1993. Theory of Reflectance and Emittance Spectroscopy. Cambridge University Press, https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9781139025683:
From the NPL-led Measurement report CEOS WGCV pilot comparison of techniques and instruments used for the vicarious calibration of land surface imaging through a ground reference standard test site 2009, by Irina Behnert, Andrew Deadman, Nigel Fox, Peter Harris, Selime Gürol, Hilal Özen, Martin Bachmann, Yannick Boucher, Sophie Lachérade, available from NPL:
The same source also defines:
And Schaepman-Strub et al. (2006) define:
I'm not sure if those definitions are consistent and if they match our observand. |
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Dear @gerritholl, @pdebuyl et al. Thanks for these. I'm not keen on By asking an LLM I have just found The principles of field spectroscopy, which gives some definitions very explicitly in terms that I can understand, as physicist but not a spectroscopy expert. On the basis of this, I'd suggest the following edition of @pdebuyl's first option: I have left out Of course Best wishes Jonathan |
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Hello @JonathanGregory , I can't find the term exitance in the book "The principles of field spectroscopy". It is also not used by the community. The other issue is that the exitance is a flux, whereas the radiometers of the type we are discussing measure radiances, so it could not apply. Simplifying the "per unit..." as you suggest would thus result in I am not sure that we can find an exact meaning expression that is at the same time brief. Contenders:
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Dear Pierre @pdebuyl Maybe I have misunderstood the previous discussion, but I thought the idea of the numerator is that it's a hemispherically integrated radiance. That's why it contains π, though it's unexplained why the factor isn't 2π Regardless of the 2, I suppose this factor is a solid angle. Hence the numerator is a flux ( Best wishes Jonathan |
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The American Meterological Society glossary contains radiant exitance but implies that it's an outdated term. It says
It seems to me that it would be confusing to use
Is "emittance" a term that you are aware of, @pdebuyl @mraspaud @gerritholl? If I've understand this correctly, it is a word which means the hemispherically integrated outgoing radiance. Using this word, the standard name of this issue would be |
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Question
In our field (weather satellites), we often work with the
toa_bidirectional_reflectance. Our understanding of that quantity is that it is the top of atmosphere radiance measured by the satellite instrument normalised by the solar irradiance, taking into account the solar zenith angle (see here for the formula for example).However, reading files with these data, it is quite often so that we have arrays where the solar zenith angle normalisation (needed for the full fledged Reflectance) has not been applied, and thus we are looking for a possible standard name to propose to this community, but we can't agree on the naming.
Suggestions for standard names we have so far include:
Would any of these be appropriate? are they following the expected forms for standard names? Are there extra guidelines (on top the already available standard name guidelines here) we can use to converge to a consensus?
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