Espruino JavaScript
I demand BangleJS3! #7341
Replies: 42 comments 281 replies
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Posted at 2022-03-24 by Ronin If there ever was a Bangle.js 3 I would love for it to have a full 16bit color display like Bangle.js 1. Posted at 2022-03-25 by user141815 I have to agree if I'm honest. I really like my Bangle.js 2, but I won't be buying another touchscreen only watch again, even if it is a Bangle. Posted at 2022-03-25 by andrewg_oz I'm pretty sure Gordon didn't design or even spec the Bangle2. He just chose the best option already being manufactured (by SMAWatch on this case). I, too, would like more buttons. However, in my opinion the power cost of a full colour display is not worth it. The Pebbles 64-colour display is ideal. Still very low power and sunlight readable, but enough colours to not need dithering to the extent the Bangle2 does (it's already too easy the make text unreadable). Posted at 2022-03-25 by Ocim +1 for more buttons Posted at 2022-03-25 by Raik ... and a truly round display. Posted at 2022-03-25 by user140377 +1 buttons. At least the 3 of the Bangle1, better 4 (Casio layout). The touchscreen can just not replace the velocity and accuracy in the operation of the watch. I still prefer the Bangle2 over Bangle1 because of its dimensions and display readability (sunlight!). Posted at 2022-03-25 by Numerist As for colours, I don't need 64, but 8 are too few. I can get by, but 16 would be better by more than what the factor of 2 suggests. A little higher resolution would be good, also better accuracy if possible (although @malaire has taken care of that for this watch). I don't need more buttons, however. All said, it's still a joy to work with this watch as it is and to see the results. Posted at 2022-03-26 by myownself Am I unimaginative if the Bangle 2 is already exactly what I need? There are things that can be improved, but they're software things and that's half the appeal. Sure, more colours would be nice, but I'd probably have been happy with monochrome too. The only thing I'd wish for that can't be done in software is better waterproofing, and even that is mostly peace of mind because I rarely swim. Posted at 2022-03-26 by andrewg_oz This is mostly for @numerist but others might be interested. The reason for 64 colours rather than something smaller, like 16, is due to the way colours work. Displays produce colours using red/green/blue sub-pixels. For the Bangle2, these three sub-colours are 1-bit meaning the total colours produced are 2^(31)=8. For the Pebble Time the sub-colours are 2-bit (just 1 more bit each) and the total colours are 2^(32)=64. I suppose a display manufacturer could take inspiration from digital cameras and come up with something based on a Bayer filter - 1 bit for red, 1 bit for blue and 2 bits for green: 4 bits total per pixel or 2^4=16. I've never heard of anything like that, though, and suspect the Pebble Time screen is the simplest next step up from what the Bangle 2 has. Oh, and -several million for a round display. If you want a smart watch over a regular watch, you're wanting to display information - text. There's a very good reason your phone, PC, and even books all have rectangular displays and not circular ones. Posted at 2022-03-26 by gfric I used to have a Amazfit Bip (S). It only has one button, but the UI was optimized for that. We should improve the menu and apps. There is no need for a new hardware. Posted at 2022-03-28 by @gfwilliams Hi - I have actually got a list of things I'd like from a new Bangle here. It'd be nice to be able to actually spec what I want and have one custom built, but the last folks I talked to had a minimum 50k unit volume for that - which is a long way off what I'm doing with the Bangle! Maybe if I start to reach that level it'll be worth it though. Having said that, doing the KickStarter this time was just amazingly difficult and tiring. There's been a lot of great support from everyone, but also some negativity (most of which you won't see because it's directed at me personally) - basically I'm in no rush to repeat it any time soon! @gFric are you using the cutting edge builds with the new menus? I think you'll find that'll help a lot! Main things on my list:
I feel like the sunlight readability is a massive step forwards over the Bangle.js 1 in usability, matching with the CPU, and battery life, and I wouldn't want to sacrifice that for 16 bit color. Also I think it helps to set expectations. If you had something with a really fancy screen people might start seeing it and expecting the Bangle to be like an Apple watch. Something about a low BPP screen seems a bit more 'honest' Having said that, the 64 color screen from the Pebbles does sound perfect. I'd definitely use one of those next time if at all possible. It may at some point be possible to abuse the existing LCD to provide 64 colors. For example this code: Will display a very flickery greyscale, but with faster rendering and by pushing the LCD bitrate past what's usually accepted, it may be possible to provide better color but at the expense of significantly higher power consumption when it was enabled (eg maybe it could be turned on when the backlight was on). Posted at 2022-03-28 by user140377
Most, if not all probably never designed a watch (me neither) nor designed anything else electronic. So far, you are doing good. Also, I'm not using my Bangle to watch pictures, nor plan to do so... Posted at 2022-03-28 by myownself
This was actually one of the first things I tried when I got my hands on the physical device. Needless to say I didn't feel the need to try it again.
I wouldn't need, maybe even want, a microphone, but a speaker would be nice (but not at the expense of waterproofing). In the mean time, I wonder whether the beep using the vibration motor could be improved? I find it inconsistent at the moment, as mentioned somewhere in another thread. Posted at 2022-03-28 by Numerist Text-based media may give odd results, including unwanted, undeserved remarks. @gfwilliams has enabled me to do things I've only dreamed of and deserves high credit and plaudits for his hard work and devotion, not to mention knowledge and skill. That is unchangeable even if another boon would be easier workings with Apple's mobile phones. Apple doesn't make it easy, I know. Still, perhaps some day, even with Bangle 2. Posted at 2022-03-28 by melstav Hardware-wise, my main wish would be a beefier vibration motor. I find the touch-screen maybe a little fiddly, but it's serviceable. I actually liked the look of the Bangle 1, but I got a 2 because it's what's current. Posted at 2022-03-28 by dapgo for the version 3, i would like:
(note) compatible software must be designed before the model exist, so i think espruino (i know that there are already some functions that allow that) and devs should use more generic functions that can be easily "translated" to different hw interfaces by any model maybe the software Posted at 2022-03-28 by HughB
From the outside it looked amazing. Brilliantly executed. Totally delivered. We are all indebted to you for bringing JS2 to market - no one else has done anything close as far as I can see. JS2 is a massive leap from JS1. For JS3 my wish list would be:
But mostly JS2 is perfect and will get better and better over time. Key area's to improve on JS2 are the heart rate monitor and low power GPS - both can probably be fixed but will need a lot of dedication and effort. Posted at 2022-03-29 by @gfwilliams Thanks! In the KickStarter a lot of people wanted a microphone - I guess voice commands/memos would be neat. But you can see from this thread that lots of people want lots of different things, and not all of them are compatible :) If someone made one, a 352x352 display would solve a lot of issues. Even if it were only 3 bit, dithering would hardly be visible. Posted at 2022-03-29 by jesstelford Just got my v2, and love it! Thank you for the hard work @gfwilliams ❤️ RE: colours & display: Is there sub-pixel rendering support? What's the layout of the LCD like? It's not extra colors, but it might go a long way in making the screen feel larger until a hypothetical v3 is built. Posted at 2022-03-30 by @gfwilliams There is antialiasing, but really it's only useful on Bangle.js 1. I'm pretty sure the LCD is just RGB stripe, but because it's only 3 bits I feel like the amount of subpixel magic you could perform is pretty limited. It's always worth a try though! Posted at 2022-03-30 by uname Personally I am very happy with my BANGLE 2, the most important thing for me is the sunlight readability and an "accessible" software (which can be fixed over time) Thanks for all the work you have done @gfwilliams, regarding the problems you had with the kickstarter campaign I still think you have been very honest about what this smartwatch is and what it is not. Posted at 2022-03-30 by Indridi Regarding the Bangle 2, daylight readable screen was probably the most important feature to me (besides, you know, all the other fantastic features...). Should there be a version 3, better waterproofing would be sitting very firmly on the top of my wish-list, making it a bit more of a "action watch" that one can wear while on the water (kayaking, in my case). More buttons a distant second. Posted at 2022-03-30 by @gfwilliams Does anyone actually care about the barometer? I ask because it's really the only reason the Bangle isn't significantly more waterproof, and right now I don't believe it's getting a great deal of use Posted at 2022-03-30 by Fteacher I don't need the barometer. I suspect it's a niche usercase. Posted at 2022-03-30 by uname The change in barometric pressure causes a sudden change in the weather. Posted at 2022-03-30 by Indridi I'm using the barometer. Even made a clock face that shows falling/rising pressure (coming to an app loader near you soon!).
I'm reading it every ten minutes, and applying a median filter with window-size of 3 samples (=30 minutes). This irons out most outliers, this way I find the barometer to be quite reliable. Not a crucial feature, but interesting. Posted at 2022-03-30 by uname @user141090 do you have what is usually called "storm alert" with your clock face? Posted at 2022-03-30 by Indridi @uname (I'm user141090 - just changed the default user name to something that makes sense). Well, functionally it might be a "storm alert". It just displays the change over the past 3 hours along with the current value in a subdial behind the clock dial. You can check it out in my repo. It's split in two apps. First is a background widget to handle barometer readings : Posted at 2022-03-30 by gfric I don't use the barometric sensor, because I bought the Bangle.JS2 for these reasons, in that order: So, yes, waterproof would be on top of my wishlist. But I really like my new watch and it has all I want. I'm so happy. Posted at 2022-03-30 by Tx
It's nice to have, but in general as with all barometers the readings are kind of useless because you need either altitude fixed or air pressure fixed to calc altitude. So real world use cases are rare. This is not a Bangle issue, but a basic problem. I like the touch screen: On my watch I have to use the button only for restart. But in general: For me Bangle 2 is perfect as it is. I really appreciate your work on v1 and v2. Posted at 2022-03-30 by user140377
some of us might like to have relative height. Also you can get the absolute height from GNSS. You can then feed height from baro and GNSS in a e.g. kalman filter. Posted at 2022-03-30 by melstav This is my first non-Pebble smartwatch, so my experience with the Pebble Time and the Pebble2 shapes my expectations, considerably. The Pebble Time had a microphone that you could use to reply to text messages. You spoke into the mic on the watch and the app on your phone converted it to text, then sent the text back to the watch for confirmation. If you hit the ok button, the text got sent as a reply. It was a cute feature, but it didn't always work very well. It stopped working at all once Pebble shut down their servers. I don't remember if the Pebble2 had a mic or not. Once I realized how unreliable the transcription was, I quit trying to use it. Posted at 2022-03-30 by melstav re: barometer I think it's kind of nifty, and potentially a nice feature to have. That said, I don't have anything installed yet that uses it yet (I just got my Bangle2 last week) and might or might not actually end up using it. If support for it went away in the future, I suspect I wouldn't be terribly disappointed. Posted at 2022-03-30 by uname thanks @indridi! Posted at 2022-03-30 by HughB
I'm not bothered about it. I cant think of any really useful use cases for it. Posted at 2022-03-31 by andrewg_oz
The data sheet for the display is here: https://www.j-display.com/product/pdf/Datasheet/5LPM013M126C_specification_ver03.pdf If I had to choose between more colours and more pixels I'd choose more colours. The display is already 194DPI (near enough to 200DPI) - basically the same as a 4K 24" screen. There's also the memory and power needed to generate and drive the display to consider. Japan Display have a 64-colour version of what the Bangle2 has (dimensions are the same, pinout is slightly different, but still an SPI interface): https://www.j-display.com/product/pdf/Datasheet/5LPM013M601B_specification_ver01.pdf Posted at 2022-03-31 by @gfwilliams
That's great, thanks! I didn't even realise that was the case. I'm certain last time I looked at https://www.j-display.com/english/product/reflective.html only the 8 color version was listed. I think that's actually pretty attainable for a Bangle.js 3 then - as far as SMA (the CM) are concerned it's probably just a matter of changing the part number they order as the physical dimensions and even pinout look the same. Posted at 2022-03-31 by fparri
✋ But, of course, water resistance is better, especially is you can get barometric data via the internet, in case you need them (which I think might be the case in the future 🤞 ) Posted at 2022-03-31 by Stiralbios I love the BangleJS 2 and for having backed 7 kickstarter projects I can tell you, you handled it very well and delivered a good product. It's my favorite from the 7 I backed. What I really like about my Banglejs 2 is:
What I don't like:
What I don't need:
What else would I like the most for the next model:
Posted at 2022-04-01 by user141815 Another + for more buttons. With the ability to turn touch off completely, if not it becomes close to useless to use when wet. Posted at 2022-04-19 by MoeMoep Dragging that out of the nethers. I have also been a Pebble user. After my pebble showed severe battery issues I found BangleJS2. I guess I'll have to echo what most people already said:
I really like:
What would be my priorities for future iteration?
Posted at 2022-04-19 by yngv126399 A survey would indeed help shape JS3 into what most current users would like to see. And having the older alternatives is good for those who want the specialty items (like the barometer, or full color LCD). It depends on what Bangle's intended use really is.. a smart watch for hackers, or a hackable smart watch (they sound similar, but they're different!) Myself, I am into the visual, and would enjoy the screen to be physically larger, hopefully without making the case TOO much larger. That would help touch screen behaviour as well. With more pixels (240x240 or greater) one can forgive the lack of colors (as anti-aliasing would be less necessary). I found the 64 color screen on the DK08 to be fantastic, if a tad too small and (sadly) low contrast (watches must be visible INDOORS on cloudy, dark Canadian "days"!) That said, I also want to thank Gordon (and team!) for the fantastic work they've done and continue to do. I will certainly be a Kickstarter when the BJ3 is ready. Posted at 2022-04-19 by yngv126399 with a combination of online meeting tools / screen sharing, and the Web IDE relay, you can probably still teach them remotely? Posted at 2022-04-19 by MoeMoep
I ... don't think BJ is the best shorthand for the BangleJS 🙄
They are not that technically interested yet, but the idea that something they do makes it onto a physical device in the real world they can interact with is captivating. They don't really have a concept of "everything is designed and procuded by someone". The physical "I can touch that" part is quite important for their motivation. Posted at 2022-04-19 by yngv126399 Agreed.... on both counts! Posted at 2022-04-20 by diejuse Bangle 2 is a brilliant device for my opinion. For Bangle 3 my main petition is: a bigger screen (1.5 to 1.8 inches) make more use of the surface of the watch. Posted at 2022-04-20 by NoMusicTuesdays An interesting idea, Andrew. The Bayer filter concept makes sense, but could there be a CMYK version of that concept? As comfortable as I am working/thinking in RGB, LCDs work on the principle of subtractive color, so perhaps we could get more out of an LCD display by thinking in terms of the subtractive model. Of course that would mean finding a manufacturer who Posted at 2022-04-22 by andrewg_oz I'm not aware of CMYK displays. Maybe actual e-paper displays that default to white and need to subtract colours to work (like actual paper and printing). I think we're mostly likely to get an upgraded display via the 64-colour one I found, since it's basically exactly the same as the current one, except for the extra colours. Posted at 2022-04-22 by @gfwilliams I saw something recently about CMYK epaper but I think that's a reasonably new thing - and I haven't seen any LCDs with it (since you'd effectively have to stack 3 LCD panels). Realistically we'd have to be selling maybe 1000x more watches even to start thinking about getting a custom LCD made, so we're stuck with off the shelf options at the moment. As @andrewg_oz says the 64 color one seems to be almost a slot-in upgrade so is by far the most likely, but even so if it adds 25% to the cost of the watch (which is likely) I think it's going to be hard to justify. Posted at 2022-04-22 by MoeMoep
I guess what NoMusicTuesdays wants to say is, that physically LCD is a light covered by coloured filters that reduce the amount of light passing through, so physically speaking it's a substractive light technology. (Please correct me if I am wrong!) Nevertheless. Displays usually are driven with "rgb technology" (meaning that the software controlling the display expects whatever inputs it received to be in RGB values). (Also I don't know, where I am going with this now...) Posted at 2022-04-22 by rigrig
It also has a refresh rate of 1 second, that's fast for epaper, but not great if you want to draw a watchface every second. I'd probably still take it over the B1 LCD, but not over the B2. My B3 wishlist:
Things I can do without:
TBH, there's quite some things I liked more about the B1 than the B2, but the always-on, sunlight-readability and full touch still make the smaller screen so much better that the B2 wins out, (the larger memory is also nice). Posted at 2022-04-26 by NoMusicTuesdays Well cheers to the bangle.js team on both the js1 and js2! I've been having so much fun with the js2 this past week, that I purchased a gently used js1 on ebay, and just received it today. So far I've just upgraded the firmware and swapped a few apps in and out (and LOVING the color and contrast on the js1) but I'm super excited to have it in time to be able to develop my second app on both watches! This whole thing really is a great project, easy enough for an entry-level dabbler like myself to take on the challenge, with rewarding results, and a nice community to share ideas and projects. Very cool. Posted at 2022-04-26 by NoMusicTuesdays
Yeah, that was my train of thought exactly! Posted at 2022-04-26 by Tx V1 was clearly a hacker's device. If you see V2 also as a hacker's device it's perfect as it is. If you see it as a smartwatch it can be improved. I personally think it's perfect for hacking and it's perfect as it is. I like the simple technology - otherwise I would buy an Apple watch. BTW: More buttons mean more buttons that may stop working ... :-) Posted at 2022-04-26 by jamesh
Personally, I'm not sure I see the use-case for having a pressure sensor on the watch, it's certainly not worth sacrificing waterproofing for. However, I think people could see real value in a microphone / speaker, and that would be something I would see as a good trade-off with regards to waterproofing. My wishlist would be:
Disclaimer - I was not one of those people who were complaining to you about there not being a microphone or speaker. I think you've done an amazing job with these, and not just from a hardware perspective but with the whole Bangle ecosystem (emulator, app loader, docs etc.). So only support & praise from me, keep up the great work! Posted at 2022-09-01 by user140377 Add higher quality PPG/Acc sensors to the wishlist, so we can run algorithms that cancel motion artifacts. Posted at 2022-09-14 by NoMusicTuesdays Whatver the js3 turns out to be, you can count on my pledge! The Js2 does everything I could want... except light up with vibrant color like the js1... I'd like a big round watch like js1 (feels more classic than the square pebbly things) although I'd like the screen to fill up the watch face fully. That could mean a bigger screen within the large watchface, or a smaller watch to match the screen, either way is fine. I don't care much about waterproofing or touchscreen. I'd be more than willing to scrap the touchscreen in favor of more buttons. The main thing I'd like to see is improved processing/RAM/draw speed. The limitations of both the js1 in terms of bandwidth, and the js2 in terms of resolution and color depth, are a fun part of the project, forcing creativity on our part. I can say that I will for sure sign up for js3 on day 1! Posted at 2022-09-14 by Mark_M Hi all, JS2 is very good. What is important for me: Nice to have: Posted at 2022-09-28 by TTBangler Just wanted to say that I love both my Bangle 1 and Bangle 2 and use them for different activities that each is more suitable for. FWIW, here are features I wish could be added or improved in a Bangle 3:
Keeping my fingers crossed for a Bangle 3 someday--many thanks to Gordon for making Bangle 1 and Bangle 2 such amazingly useful and capable devices! Posted at 2022-09-28 by @gfwilliams Thanks! I may not reply to every post here but I am reading them and making a wishlist! The vibration power is something I tried to get improved in the most recent batch of Bangle.js 2, but the manufacturer just won't put a more powerful motor on there. They say the problem is the motor is attached to the battery in the middle of the watch and they're worried about anything more powerful causing damage - really it needs to be placed so it'd physically attached to the rear of the watch. In terms of Graphics draw speed, hopefully I'll be able to make some firmware optimisations there at some point. I believe there are still a few opportunities for big improvements. Posted at 2022-09-28 by yngv126399 If the plan is to use an existing watch for a base, I'll just toss in the TK78G: https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&tab=all&SearchText=tk78g It may be on the way out (it's mostly disappeared from AliExpress) but it has some features that make it an interesting blend of B1 and B2: NRF52840, two physical buttons, GPS, Thermometer (external), heart rate sensor, accelerometer, touch screen and a nice 1.6" screen. I have it running Espruino right now (in the process of RE the screen and sensors). It may not replace the B2's always-on display, but it may be a replacement for B1? Posted at 2022-09-29 by @fanoush As for the TK78G it all depends whether custom firmware flashing is possible, this seller/manufacturer Not sure if "Graphic customization" means they can sign/flash custom firmware binary we would give them, if yes it could be an option. And BTW the HR sensor is VC32S - not sure if this is good or bad. Posted at 2022-09-29 by @gfwilliams Thanks! TK78G does look very interesting! I love the idea of proper body temperature measurement, and it has a proper Ublox GPS too. If I was just on Bangle.js 1 right now I'd totally be behind moving to that, but I'm not sure it quite adds enough to Bangle.js 2 to warrant the time and expense of moving to a new watch. If anyone spots any new watches I'm always interested in hearing about them though!
How did you get the firmware on yours? Did you have to crack it open? I know there's https://github.com/jeffmer/WatchApps but I am open to bringing support for more watches into the main Espruino project if it doesn't mess the code around too much. Ideally we should be able to build firmwares such that the Posted at 2022-10-05 by @fanoush
I guess @yngv126399 's idea was to replace Bangle 1 with it and keep two watches - one smaller/lighter with less buttons/colors and one possibly larger with full color screen which is not always on like Bangle 1. However it probably doesn't really work that way for you since you need to support bangle 1 for existing customers anyway so that makes it 3 watches. I see it still being listed here https://shop.espruino.com/ble/banglejs so maybe after that one is gone completely? Well, unless two watches sold in parallel is simply too much to handle. EDIT: Oh, I see now the big bold sentence "Bangle.js 1 is now discontinued" Posted at 2022-10-06 by yngv126399
Yes. I've opened several watches now, and this one is not too bad. Hair dryer to heat the screen edges, then a plastic spudge to loosen the screen.
Some of jeffmer's solutions use a modified spi_lcd_unbuf to accommodate shared SPI between LCD and Flash chip, but that looks like it's only a few #ifdefs to make it happen. He also exposes a function that lets you send init commands to the LCD from Espurino, so custom init sequences don't require custom firmware.
Mostly you can, obviously with some exceptions for watches that don't have barometer, GPS, etc. but he has a "Bangle" object that honours many functions, and that can be embellished. Posted at 2022-10-06 by yngv126399 and yes, my thought was sunset Bangle 1, and use this as Bangle 3 (only supporting B2 and B3). It's darn impossible to find ONE watch to make everyone happy, with these two you cover a lot of ground. BTW: the TK78G has a 405mAh battery inside (likely to accommodate for all the sensors) and 64Mb (8MB) SPI flash. I've mapped quite a few pins so far, but I am not an electrical engineer so I am likely missing some step to get SPI Flash working (like setting, resetting or toggling some pin). I've found 10 pins on the LCD/touch panel connector and am running through those permutations when I can. Posted at 2022-10-07 by Serj My B.js3 wishlist:
Posted at 2022-10-10 by @gfwilliams
Well, I don't sell Bangle.js 1 anyway - since I have to order in batches of 3000, if I bought another batch I'd never sell through them. I'm still supporting it with software updates though. And thanks @serj - the disassembly is something I'd really like too - I was wondering whether it was possible to resurrect the SMA Q2's design (screwable case, more buttons) but with new innards and a 6 bit screen - but I think as you noted for any new watch we really need to get the screen further to the edges... Either with a bigger screen or smaller body Posted at 2022-10-14 by g_lander Hello, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents as a B1 and B2 owner:
Posted at 2022-10-15 by sp Hey Gordan, Posted at 2022-10-15 by @thyttan Here's my go at a wish list :) Screen:
Sensors:
Miscellaneous:
Thanks for considering! :) Posted at 2022-10-15 by @fanoush
It is software thing and there are several reasons on different layers for this. On the uppermost layer the issue is that there is only one javascript console input/output and both the phone connection and the WebIDE uses same console input to run bits of javascript. Allowing two concurrent connections would randomly mix input and output so both could fail in unexpected way. It is of course solvable but for now simplicity wins. Posted at 2022-10-17 by @gfwilliams
Bangle.js does support multiple central connections now (eg for a bluetooth ECG and a bike speed sensor). The smartphone disconnection thing is a pain though - are you using Android? I'd been considering adding the ability to forward the bluetooth connection from the phone to a PC (like we do for https://www.espruino.com/ide/relay/), so that could solve that problem quite nicely Posted at 2022-10-23 by crisp For the Bangle.js 3, I'd like to see stronger water resistance and higher build quality. I'm disappointed to see my Bangle.js 2 suffer water damage even though I have never immersed it in water. An occasional splash from using the sink faucet was enough to make the device unresponsive and cause it to constantly reboot. This is surprising to me because IP67 rated devices are supposed to be protected from not just occasional splashes, but also water immersion of up to 1 meter for 30 minutes. The Bangle.js 3 should ideally have a 5 atm water resistance rating or an IP68 rating like some of the higher-quality imported watch models, or at least meet the IP67 standard more consistently. The Bangle.js 2 has a body made of plastic, with sides that are easy to scuff and discolor. Some type of metal would be an improvement. The plastic button also feels mushy when pressed, and a more "clicky" button would be more pleasant to use. The electrical tape that covered the contacts at the bottom came off for me after wearing the watch for a month, and I'd like to see a more robust solution. I suppose the silicone protective cover would have made up for the plastic body and the electrical tape, but I didn't buy it at the time of my order since I've never purchased a case for a watch before and I didn't feel that one was necessary. On the other hand, I'm very impressed with the functionality and ease-of-use of the Espruino platform. If a future Bangle.js model addressed the water resistance and build quality issues, I would purchase or pre-order it immediately. Posted at 2022-10-23 by johan_m_o
FYI: If it was just a splash it shouldn't be any worries, but if the watch ended up directly in the water stream underneath the faucet it could have been exposed to water pressure that would greatly exceed the pressure it would experience when just immersed to 1 meter. Posted at 2022-10-23 by @halemmerich As far as I know the IPX7 rating does not include IPX5/6 which would be necessary for any relevant protection against splashes and jets of water from all directions. So even dropping an IPX7 device from some distance into 1m deep water is probably not tested so I would only expect such a device to be able to be slowly submerged to this depth without damage. Posted at 2022-10-24 by user150470 [used wrong email to log in, please ignore] Posted at 2022-10-24 by crisp I see your point about IP67 not protecting against water pressure. To clarify, I didn't bring the Bangle.js 2 into the shower and I didn't intentionally put it under a stream of running water. On the other hand, I didn't remove the watch before washing my hands and I allowed water to run down my hand and make contact with the watch. Since the Bangle.js 2 product page describes the watch as "waterproof", I didn't think this kind of common situation would be an issue, but I was apparently wrong. If 3 atm or 5 atm water resistance is needed to protect the watch against common water exposure situations, then I would like to request this feature in the Bangle.js 3. Posted at 2022-10-26 by @gfwilliams Hi @crisp, I'm sorry you've had problems with this. How long have you had your watch and where did you get it from? What kind of water damage was there? The Bangle definitely should be able to put up with a few seconds of hand washing - this sounds like a manufacturing issue to me. Maybe send me a PM or start a new thread? As far as the case goes, it's a tricky one. I already get complaints that the current Bangle is too expensive, but if I were to increase the quality (and hence price) it starts getting comparisons to things like the Apple Watch and then I get more unhappy customers. Ideally I'd definitely use higher quality plastics in the next one though. ... and yes, changing the arrangement for the SWD pins is something super high on my list. I wouldn't produce a Bangle 3 with the same arrangement as now at all :) Posted at 2022-10-29 by HughB
No. Never use it, happy give it up for better water resiliance. Posted at 2022-10-29 by @halemmerich Barometric pressure gives better altitude information than GPS can, especially when GPS reception is not that great like on the Bangle. Posted at 2022-11-05 by Serj I'm just thinking why a speaker is needed in a new B.js 3 watch, f.e.: To quickly find the watch (you can set a signal to BT disconnect, for example); Your options :) Posted at 2022-11-17 by youphyun I am happy with the Bangle.js 2 and would buy it for my kids if it was better waterproof and the charging connector would be improved. Posted at 2022-11-17 by Serj @gfwilliams is there any chance that the new B.js watch will have wireless charging according to the Qi standard? Posted at 2022-11-18 by @gfwilliams Maybe? My concern is that I'd have to supply with with a Qi charger then rather than a cheap cable, and suddenly the cost skyrockets. Bangle.js only works because it's a sensible price. If I charge Apple Watch money people expect an Apple Watch, and nobody is happy Posted at 2022-11-18 by @fanoush Also if you need to charge your watch/phone every day or two wireless is helpful, when charging every 14 days or more I guess attaching cable is not such burden? EDIT: BTW just checked https://www.apple.com/watch/battery/ and it is indeed so insanely low as I guessed Posted at 2022-11-18 by user141815 I'd say don't supply one out of the box, only as a optional extra. Many people already have a QI charger or would rather choose their own. Posted at 2022-11-19 by b3-4r I suspect my view is the antithesis to what people expect of (open source) watches- I like a watch to be completely independent of a phone and be packed with sensors and stand-alone functionality. Phone battery lasts one day tops and sometimes I don't even want to bring it with me. I vote to keep as many sensors as possible, including the baro, which is useful for rudimentary weather forecasting. My v2 wishlist would probably include:
Posted at 2022-11-21 by @gfwilliams Hi, Thanks! I think LoRa might be a bit of a stretch, but as this is a bit of a hackers' watch personally I'd love to go back to a point where we had more buttons and an unscrewable case. I can imagine there maybe being some IO pins on the inside, so you could unscrew the case, maybe insert a spacer (or swap to a smaller battery), and then a second PCB with whatever extras you wanted in it.
It's a good question - I'm not sure. Maybe there are different sensors that are designed to be exposed to water (maybe which have a membrane internally). Even if you could seal them to a hole in the watch, I don't think the normal MEMS ones like getting wet Posted at 2022-11-21 by user140377 Slightly offtopic today on hn someone wish a watch wishlist: Posted at 2022-11-21 by b3-4r
Oooooh! That does sound good, perhaps this could be made compatible with Sensor Watch daughterboards, I'm sure there is some overlap in user bases, and you could take advantage of the open HW framework already in place. Coincidentally I wear that exact Protrek and it feels like it's for the same reasons! I love the DCF77-disciplined timekeeping and the ability to sense one's surroundings to an extent. I just wish this kind of functionality and form came in a tweakable, open source package. Posted at 2022-11-22 by user151014 Hi Gordon, haven't been on the forum for a while. Now I was looking through it because my barometer seems to have been broken. No more readings for a week or so :( And yes–I personally care a lot about the barometer. Still planning to write a GPS-calibrated barometric altimeter. That probably needs way less battery than alt by GPS. Also to judge the weather. But I get it, waterproof would be nice. Anyway, any ideas what I could do about the sensor? EIDT: just read the other threads. Will try out firmwares (I think I'm on 15) and battery flattening. Posted at 2022-11-22 by user140377 Could you also try the reset as in https://forum.espruino.com/conversations/381706/ IF you also have a SPL06. Posted at 2022-11-23 by @gfwilliams
Wow, that's such a cool idea using old Casio watch housings! But yes, something like that would be great (especially if there was room for a FPC connector).
Sorry to hear that - as above though, that post could help you. Or actually just running your watch right down (there's an option in Settings->Utils) and seeing if the full power cycle fixes it.
That would be great! I have actually added Posted at 2022-11-23 by Serj Yes, I understand, but the Qi charger can be sold separately, in general, it’s good if it is possible to charge the future model both by wire and without wire by Qi. Let's say there will be 2 models on sale, the old one will be cheaper, and the new one will be more expensive (pro version). On the contrary, I would like a more thoughtful device, even more expensive ( x 1.2, x 1.5, x 1.7 $). With a simple good speaker, good vibro, fast GPS, with case which can be simply disassembled and replaced with parts, no oxidized contacts, and so on. But inside there should be a low-power SoC and more biggest AoD screen. If someone needs a minimalistic Open Source watch, at the cheapest price, then this is PineTime, with all their limitations. Posted at 2022-11-23 by Serj Yes, there are no problems if you do not load the watch, but I constantly use timers, voracious watch faces, so I charge my B.js2 1-2 times a week. And now I not use GPS every day, as I did with the first B.js. With Qi will be very convenient. Let's say I have a power bank with Qi, which can be used to charge both the phone and the watch while traveling. Some phones even have Reverse Wireless Charging. Posted at 2022-11-23 by Serj And to be honest, cheapest version of Apple watches costs $ 250 - $ 300, and the max is > $ 800 Posted at 2022-11-23 by @fanoush The Apple watch (or Android or WearOS based watches) are scaled down phone chips, see e.g. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-S7-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.575945.0.html - 1GB RAM, 32GB flash, dual core CPU running at 1.8GHz. Bangle 2 is 256KB of RAM, 64MHz CPU, 8MB of flash - that is 4096 times less RAM, 30 times less CPU speed . You basically expect different class of device than Bangle 2 is and are willing to pay premium price for that. There are also people that are not buying Bangle 2 because current price is already too high.
Well Pinetime is previous generation (like Bangle 1), I was actually thinking Bangle 2 is current generation of minimalistic Open Source watch. Posted at 2022-11-23 by Serj Yes, I know the specs of the watch. No, I do not expect a completely different watch than B.js 2, I need a low-power microcontroller on my wrist, but with additional features. About the premium price: I'm willing to reasonably overpay for the things that are needed: Qi, speaker, larger AoD screen, different case, different GPS module. Posted at 2022-11-24 by @gfwilliams It's a tricky one - I guess in theory I could design a higher priced, low-volume watch with a CNC milled case and all those features. But I'm not sure there's enough demand at the moment that I would ever make my my money back on it :( Maybe that will change, but as you can see from this thread, everyone had different ideas about what they want, and many of them are conflicting. For instance Qi charging would make a lot of sense to enable some good water resistance, but then you also want a speaker, which for it to be loud would probably make water resistance very difficult. Posted at 2022-11-24 by dapgo
I think keeping support for old models like bangle.js1 is not bad at all for the project neither for users of new models. As it forces to apply better coding practises, help detecting the lack of abstraction between the code and the hardware. Yes, the different display sizes are a challenge, but I am sure there is a solution for it :) Posted at 2022-11-24 by Serj Well, these are just thoughts, suddenly there will be a wider choice among donors for the next B.js watch :) Posted at 2022-11-24 by b3-4r If the design ticks most of my boxes I'm more than happy to pay in advance without expecting immediate results. As far as the speaker goes, a piezo disc conducting sound into the case back has been tried and tested method of getting waterproof watches to make sound for years and imho the use cases for actual sound playback are quite limited in a watch, the sound feature will likely be used for simple notifications most of the time. Two use cases come to mind, TTS for blind/ partially sighted users, and navigation directions. This could perhaps be accomplished using BT earbuds. Re Qi charging, I'm sure this is dealt with in phones and other smartwatches or perhaps it's no issue at all but it might be worth checking that the charging EMF or the magnetic core disc don't damage or interfere with the magnetometer. Posted at 2022-11-27 by user151014
Is that optional? I thought the Bangle2 comes with "Air Pressure/Temperature sensor (Bosch BMP280 / Goertek SPL06)". Posted at 2022-11-27 by user140377 Both the BMP280 and SPL06 are pressure sensors. So I read that as you can have either the BMP280 or the SPL06, not both. Like a car, which can have a stereo from panasonic or sony. Posted at 2022-11-28 by @gfwilliams Yes - after the first run, with the component shortage the sensor had to be swapped - so original ones have BMP280 and any Bangle you buy now will have the SPL06. Nice thing is because it's JavaScript running on top it really doesn't make a difference to code or how the watch behaves at all. Posted at 2022-11-30 by b3-4r Turns out there are waterproof baro sensors, e.g. (first hits) BM1390GLV or LPS33HW .. The sensor could be installed in a separate open cavity with a flat flex passing into the main sealed cavity either through a potted section or between soft gaskets. Posted at 2023-01-02 by user140377 With inspiration from https://github.com/joeycastillo/Sensor-Watch: Route i2c to the additional pins of the watch so we can attach external sensors. |
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I wouldn't disqualify features that can help achieve the goal described here: https://github.com/baljo/fall_detection |
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Posted at 2023-01-03 by @fanoush Well, this could also be done over BLE. what type of sensor is worth the hassle of wiring it to the watch and wearing such combined result on your wrist? puckjs or any cheap nrf52 module running espruino can do such BLE to i2c/spi/serial bridge and you can have the sensor in a pocket or other suitable location Posted at 2023-01-05 by HughB @gfwilliams - this thread has been running a while. I'm wondering how you are leaning for a Bangle JS3. What features are definitley on the list and what gets dropped? Also do you have any immediate plans for a Bangle JS3 ? Have you recovered from the BJ2 kick starter ? Posted at 2023-01-05 by fanoushs-punching-bag nm Posted at 2023-01-06 by @gfwilliams
Not really, no! I think in all likelihood I won't be doing any more KickStarter campaigns :)
I don't have plans at the moment - I feel like there's still a lot than Bangle.js 2 does right, and I have a bunch of companies starting to use it so I don't want to suddenly change things under their feet. I've also got enough stock to last me at least a year! For the moment the plan is to get some other Espruino devices out there this year - it's been a long time of me basically just doing Bangle.js stuff and I have some good ideas for new hardware :) ... but even if I don't sell other hardware, I'm all for making some of the homebrew watches a bit more compatible (eg with the Posted at 2023-01-06 by user140377
I prefer wires
Sounds cool, but also like a maintaining problem nightmare. I always test GUI-changes on BangleJS1 and 2. Now imaging you have to test for multiple watches. Or we get a good test/emulator infrastructure..
Interesting, I wonder what the companies use the BangleJS for, do you have any specific information? And are you allowed to say something? Posted at 2023-01-06 by @thyttan
I'd think that you'd probably not have the same expectation on app developers to have apps be stable for all unofficial espruino watches. And it's more on the person using such a watch to fix bugs themselves to a larger extent. Posted at 2023-01-06 by @halemmerich The userbase for the Bangle watches is in the thousands, the user base for unofficial but half decent working other watches will probably be more like lower single digits ;) Posted at 2023-01-07 by HughB
Sorry to hear that.
It gets better all the time. We just need someone with a bit of energy to get heart rate working when moving about. Posted at 2023-01-09 by @gfwilliams I'm not saying that I'm not going to do a Bangle.js 3 - just that Bangle.js 2 has only been out a year, and I think that probably most owners would like to know their Bangle was going to stay well supported and keep improving for at least another year. ... but KickStarter campaigns can be difficult. I think maybe some people would be fine with it but I feel personally responsible, so when things don't go right (like EU shipping!) I'm under a lot of stress, which I'm in no hurry to repeat. So I'll still do a Bangle.js 3 at some point, but almost certainly not via KickStarter!
There was some Covid-related tracking in the pandemic, and we've got companies developing asset tracking, sport tracking, health research and also elderly care stuff. There are a few more but I can't think of them right now, but generally everyone wants to white-label them and not make it known they're using Espruino so it's hard to give you any specific names! Posted at 2023-01-09 by pancake I'm super happy with banglejs2, i actually own two of them and i really miss a bigger community because i think it's the best opensource smartwatch.
But i'm aware about some issues I would love to get them fixed, maybe in a revision or a new model, but I also hope the community grows and the system gets better, this is my wishlist:
I understand every line of my wishlist implies a lot of work, but I think this is the most amazing piece of hardware I own and I enjoy it every time i code things for it. So I want to greet you all for the amazing work you put in that little device :) Posted at 2023-01-09 by L0cutus I think some kind of "Energy Harvesting" would be great too! Posted at 2023-01-17 by @fanoush Someone designed his own nrf52833 watch https://hackaday.com/2023/01/16/zswatch-this-oshw-smart-watch-is-as-diy-as-it-gets/ , planning to switch to nrf52840 in v2 so definitely could run Espruino. Maybe a good starting point for own design however I guess ready made mass produced watch from China will still be cheaper. Posted at 2023-01-17 by @halemmerich Wow, that is very cool. Throw GPS in there and some kind low power display (epaper or transflective LCD) and it would be very close to perfect for me. Posted at 2023-01-24 by labarks Agreed. I backed/own the original PowerWatch X and the Series 2. The PowerWatch 2 is great and has that form factor that about half of the users would want in a B3. The biggest problem right now is that they have been sold out since 2020 and don't even have parts for repairs (broke both of them by wearing them in the pool for too long under water). Posted at 2023-02-11 by rchateauneu A wish, on top of the ideas here, would be a metal case for a DeLuxe Bangle2, and here is why: I had a Casio bought in 1993 but it died last year and anyway could give the day of the week only between 1980 and 2020. So I chose another model, and found in the "vintage" serie of Casio the "W-800H-1AVES", with a steel case that I like : Also, I loved the aesthetics of Nixon Regulus silver : https://uk.nixon.com/products/regulus-stainless-steel-black?gclid=CjwKCAiAlp2fBhBPEiwA2Q10D1wAO4czbvxt15Gse9mIXjw_imRU1_q4yu4KgjDOs6VsNXAt8xpW0BoC0E0QAvD_BwE For both of them, the software does not do much beyond giving time, and has useless features (No need of two timers) This is when I discovered Bangle 2, immediately loved the concept, and happily chose it (and offered one to my son). So, ideally, I would love another Bangle 2 but with a steel case. Posted at 2023-02-20 by @gfwilliams Thanks - a metal case would be very cool, but it would add a lot to the cost and would make the GPS basically useless (as well as hurting bluetooth range). It might be possible to do a limited run of them though - I guess we could just get the case CNC cut and then put the normal innards inside it Posted at 2023-02-20 by user140377 Unless the case becomes the antenna...or the antennas are build into the case. I mean something like this https://blog.antenova.com/4-ways-to-increase-wireless-antenna-performance-in-metal-devices Sure, would not reduce the cost of the case... Posted at 2023-02-22 by @gfwilliams Yes, it's definitely possible - the issue is really the design costs. Especially a full metal device I might sell a few hundred of at the moment. The cost of designing and certifying an aerial for Bluetooth and GPS in a metal case is going to be tens of thousands of pounds - and per-device for 100 devices it's just not going to be something most people are willing to pay for :( Posted at 2023-03-23 by Geza First of all: i like the Bangle js concept. https://www.nordicsemi.com/News/2021/03/Mo-Young-Ltd-uses-nRF52840-in-Leadoys-C16-Smart-Watch Attachments: Posted at 2023-03-23 by @fanoush Interesting that they had press release with Moyoung, yes this watch (called Rock or C16) runs unofficial builds of Espruino. It has basically same hardware as Magic 3 (C17) and QY03. All three are posible to update to Espruino without taking apart. Posted at 2023-03-23 by Geza Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. I shared it mainly because of the design. Posted at 2023-03-23 by @fanoush
Yes, what a coincidence :-) More info e.g. here https://github.com/jeffmer/WatchApps#rock-and-magic3 But of course as unofficial port it is not properly maintained and currently it is outdated and only some subset of apps work. However with some effort it could be usable. You get what you pay for :-) Posted at 2023-03-23 by Geza I don't really understand why you wrote that it was a "coincidence". I was deliberately looking for a watch that looks good and uses an NRF52 chip. I don't think - although I could be wrong - that the Bangle JS 3 project has a budget for its own design. What I like about Gordon's projects is that they are rationally planned. Besides all that, really thanks for the info! Posted at 2023-03-24 by @fanoush
You randomly found a watch that you like. This exact watch is one of the very few that already can run Espruino. That means someone wrote support for most/all the hardware inside, figured out and documented installation procedure and made usable build for you. That looks like quite a coincidence to me. And BTW 99% of NRF52 watches cannot be updated with custom firmware without taking them apart because the firmware is signed by private key of the manufacturer and the device update won't accept any other. Da Fit - mobile app+watch firmware made by Moyoung company is rare exception. Bangle2 hardware is rare exception too with SWD pins on charging connector allowing custom firmware installation too. Posted at 2023-03-25 by Geza if you type this into the google search engine: "nrf52840 smartwatch" the third search result (for me) is this watch. When I searched for a picture, it was the second one. I think other people look for it in the same way, there is nothing surprising about it. For me, the question was basically what type/style the new watch should be. The retro line (e.g. Casio) is also interesting, but for corporate use it is not serious enough for me, I vote for such a form, that's why I shared it. If anyone, then I definitely support Gordon's developments, I have already bought a lot of factory Espruino devices. Posted at 2023-05-25 by @andresdju First of all, bangle.js 2's hardware is good enough for me, so while there is availability of it and no interest from Gordon's side in a new model, I'm very happy with it. In my opinion software support and quality apps are more important that a new model. Nonetheless I'm going to give my preferences, more or less in this order, for a future model:
Did I said that free software is the most important thing for me and the reason I chose bangle.js 2? Posted at 2023-05-26 by @gfwilliams Thanks! A lot of those are on my wishlist too. I'm very tempted to overmould the case with rubber and have rubber buttons and wireless charging so there was a really nice water resistance and maybe an unscrewable rear cover - but that probably makes USB/baro/mic/speaker a no-go. I think there's got a be a decision about whether we go for water resistance or not - because to be properly able to go underwater it really means no holes at all. Posted at 2023-05-26 by @andresdju
I don't think USB and water resistance are totally incompatible. About microphone and speakers I care so less about them that I forgot mentioning. Now I realize that I forgot to mention that a slightly more powerful vibration motor would be nice. Posted at 2023-05-28 by Fteacher About water resistance, being able to swim with it would be great, but without going that far, resistance to washing the dishes and shower would be good. I happened to run under medium rain and I took it off because I was too worried for it. I'd be happy not to worry for so little. Posted at 2023-06-04 by @thyttan I think the rapid development of AI, specifically chatbots, boosts the case for having a microphone and maybe even a speaker. Couple it with an open source LLM chatbot could be cool - accessed via an android app or via http-requests. Although one could argue it's better to connect some bluetooth headset to the bangle for audio interfacing. Counter to that, you might not always want to have a headset on you. This does not mean I argue strongly for a mic/speaker though. Posted at 2023-06-04 by stweedo There was talk of being able to use your phone's mic for input. Would need some kind of speech to text on the phone then. In lieu of a mic or speaker, it might be useful to make a predictive text input that contextually predicts chunks of words it thinks you might want to enter into your prompt and present them as a list of options to append to your prompt. Initially it could start with generic "What, when, why, how, where" etc. and probably would need at least one or two other seed words that are input by the user with a keyboard app to give better context. Here's the basic thought process on how it might work:
Back on topic... I thought it would be nice for Bangle.js 3 to have an LED indicator that could double as an ambient light sensor. Similar to how the LED is being used on this open source chirp device. From the description: Posted at 2023-07-18 by @thyttan This hw would be pretty cool for a Bangle.js 3 (transflective display!): I guess the platform doesn't gel easily with espruino though? Following 2:42 in the video what looks to me like swd connectors are shown. I think these are its specs: https://www.phonemore.com/specs/xiaomi/amazfit-pace/ Edit: Bonus link (someone compiled a list of watches with transflective displays): Posted at 2023-07-18 by Ivor Runs a build of Android. Apparently uses a chinese "Ingenic M200" cpu - http://www.ingenic.com.cn/en/?newton/id/13.html so no, unlikely to be an option for Espruino. Posted at 2023-07-18 by user140377 Can someone please explain me what the advantage of this transflective display is? I have no problem to read the Bangle.js 2 outdoors. (to be fair, we do not have much sun here in northern europe). The one thing I like is the 4GB storage to play music from. Posted at 2023-07-18 by @halemmerich The Bangle.js 2 already has a transflective display :) Posted at 2023-07-19 by user141569 Reflective LCDs work by reflecting ambient light. They are readable without a backlight, but cannot be backlit well if at all. They work well if there's enough light, but not very well in the dark. At best, you might have a frontlight that lights the screen unevenly. Transmissive LCDs instead pass light through. They have a backlight to cover dark environments, but they are only properly visible with the backlight. In brighter environments, you need to turn up the brightness to compete with the ambient light. In sunlight, you end up needing to use a lot of power, if your backlight can even get that bright at all. Transflective LCDs are capable of doing both reasonably well. In a dark environment, they can be lit evenly with a backlight. In a bright environment, the ambient light helps rather than competes, so the backlight can be turned off and the display remains visible. This saves a lot of power. As halemmerich has pointed out, we already have one on the Bangle 2. This is a huge reason why we can have multi-week battery life with an always-on display. Posted at 2023-07-27 by HopeToBeUseful1day Dual-frequency GPS please Posted at 2023-07-27 by @fanoush
Just noticed this comment. Unfortunately Bluetooth headsets are so far all classic Bluetooth which nrf52840 does not support. There is LE audio standard coming but it still might take some time to get widely used and unfortunately nrf52840 may be too slow to support this as per https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/72791/bluetooth-5-2-support-for-nrf52840/299994#299994 The LC in LC3 codec name means low complexity so decoding should be OK but we are talking about encoding here if we want to send audio to the headset. Some CPU numbers for encoding are here https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/93689/nrf5340-lc3-decoder-question - 48% CPU for encoding stereo stream but that is on 128MHz Cortex M33 nRF5340 so it will be at least twice as much for 64MHz 52840. Posted at 2023-07-27 by @thyttan Ah - bummer. Posted at 2023-07-30 by HopeToBeUseful1day Does it mean nrf5340 would drain the battery when working with audio? Posted at 2023-07-30 by @halemmerich It sounds like if it is possible at all CPU-wise it will be awfully close. Probably too close for someone (Nordic) to attempt to implement newer bluetooth LE codecs on these chipsets. If it somehow actually works, storage would be the next big problem. 8MB flash is not much to store audio samples. Posted at 2023-07-31 by @gfwilliams I guess you might be able to store pre-compressed data on the flash? But honestly it's not likely to be of a great deal of use being able to replay a few seconds of audio... Posted at 2023-07-31 by @fanoush Well you could have sidplayer or modplayer app (both C64 and Amiga were slower than Bangle 2!), also speech synthesizer does not need lot of data and the bitrate is lower so could not use that much CPU when encoding
Navigation directions are quite short samples too. Still not that much useful/practical I guess. Posted at 2023-08-30 by user156359 My top wishes would be:
Posted at 2023-08-30 by @gfwilliams Thanks, yes that's about where I am with it as well - Bangle.js 2 does have a membrane, and it does seem to work ok - but it's still something you can't really rely on for proper submersion (like swimming). Heart rate is a hard one for me to add on a custom-designed watch, but I do think it is expected of a wearable at the moment so probably is needed.
Bangle.js 2 does do this already (well, it allows the screen to be rotated) - check out the LCD page in Settings Posted at 2023-08-30 by user156359
All i wish for you is inner peace, patience and good luck when you'll want to release a new version Posted at 2023-09-01 by @gfwilliams
Thanks! With two small kids, inner peace is something I could definitely do with more of :) Posted at 2023-09-03 by HughB I'm not convinced inner peace is possible even when your kids are grown up there still worries :) Posted at 2023-09-03 by HughB Its looks to me like 3 buttons is a popular ask. I have to say I much prefer the 1 button design that changes on context eg launcher, back, reset Posted at 2023-09-07 by @gfwilliams I think probably more buttons wouldn't hurt - especially in winter it's requested because of issues using a touchscreen with gloves. Obviously exposing that in software could be more of a problem, but I guess if we had 4 buttons we could have the back button behaving the same way, but then up/down/select which would allow any scrollable lists to be selected by button presses too. Posted at 2023-09-07 by user141569 Agreed. I personally far prefer using the touchscreen over buttons when I can, but having more buttons won't hurt anything when I can still use the touchscreen. It will only make the watch more usable with gloves. Having the watch be usable with gloves would be a major improvement and serious advantage over other smartwatches. Posted at 2023-09-08 by Ocim More buttons also allows you to do things without having to look at the watch, for example increase the volume or decline a call Posted at 2023-09-08 by @andresdju Having more buttons is not only desirable when wearing gloves. I use the watch mainly as a sport watch, and for that use case the touch screen is nearly unusable while doing the activity. Posted at 2023-09-13 by Lorenzo I'm a new BangleJS 2 user. I was using a Garmin Instinct watch before. The main things I really miss are (ordered by importance):
Posted at 2023-10-02 by @thyttan Maybe a flashlight on model 3? Could be neat! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA0hAofJ3yU Posted at 2023-10-03 by ccchan btw, will you guys prefer 1 way GPS instead of China's 2-way BeiDou (The BeiDou Navigation Satellite System (BDS))? it is told that with GPS, you can only receive signal from the sats, to calculate your location. with BDS, you can send text back, but with that, if there is spyware, it's worrysome. the OS espruino is foss i know, but hardware-wise i dont know what we can control. and i am not sure if BDS provide a read-only framework and is it trust-able. Posted at 2023-10-03 by @fanoush
For that you would need something with much bigger battery and better antenna. Even your phone would struggle with that task https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_phone#Integration_into_conventional_mobile_phones But maybe there could be deluxe version of the watch sold as a kit with two tinfoil hats, one small for the watch and one bigger :-) Posted at 2023-10-03 by ccchan hey, didn't you heard of huawei mate 60 pro? a regular size phone can now do satallite phone-ing. Posted at 2023-10-03 by ccchan btw, i am writing to AGAINST the 2 way texting. Posted at 2023-10-03 by @fanoush
That is what the wikipedia link says too. Still we are talking about smartwatch here with tiny battery, not phone. Currently it loses phone connectivity even when you move 10m away and GPS is not the best one even as a receiver. Also we are talking about component that costs about dollar or two (and is connected over simple uart we have under complete control) Anyway, point taken, next bangle 3 should not be huawei mate 60 pro. And BTW since we have quite a lot of posts from you in many topics it would be nice if you would chose a nick. Posted at 2023-10-03 by ccchan need make a nickname oneself? Posted at 2023-10-03 by Serj By the way, you can use the green light from HRM sensor as a flashlight in bjs2. Posted at 2023-10-03 by @thyttan Thanks for the tip! 🙂 Posted at 2023-10-03 by @fanoush
Was also thinking it could be used for some sort of communication when BLE does not work or is too complicated similar to IrDA or NFC - sending via blinking (led or even display) and receiving by the sensor. Display to HR sensor is unidirectional but two sensors pointing each other could be bidirectional. Posted at 2023-10-04 by user156670 Just chiming in to say that I'm also ready for a Bangle.JS3. My JS2 is getting scratched up and the battery doesn't hold a charge as well as it used to, and I'd prefer to upgrade rather than just get a replacement. As for what I'd want changed, I'll just have to repeat what other people have said and say that I'd like button controls, more colours and better waterproofing. What I don't need is a GPS and barometer. My phone has a GPS already and I've never felt the need to have a second one on my watch, and I don't know what I'd use a wrist-mounted barometer for in the first place. The heart-rate sensor is nice, though. This could probably be added to the JS2 through a patch, but I'd really like to be able to configure my watch apps remotely. Dealing with the Bangle's tiny touch-screen is a pain, and it would be really nice if I could do most of my interaction via Gadgetbridge or another app so that I have a larger interface to work with, and mostly use the watch for output. Posted at 2023-10-04 by ccchan hi, with that, may be we can replace yubico key with BJ v3. ps: google previously have titan key provied in NFC and bluetooth version. thx Posted at 2023-10-04 by @gfwilliams Thanks - yes, NFC would be a nice addition as it's on the chip as well. GPS is a difficult one - it does make the watch a lot more expensive/difficult, but it does have uses. For example I use my watch for running when I don't want to carry my chunky smartphone but I do want to log the run... @fanoush in 2v19 I added some code to the firmware so that you could actually turn the HRM LED on/off and could use the sensor to read raw analog values - you could definitely hold the watch against your PC/phone screen and use it to detect the screen flashing on and off in a set way :) I'll try and upload the sample code I have which counts light pulses... Posted at 2023-11-11 by user156955 It is not safe to listen to music while riding a bicycle, so I am against the appearance of a third version of the watch. I hope if there are no buttons on the watch there will be fewer idiots listening to music on their bike Posted at 2023-11-11 by ccchan if you were correct, then how can you explain Sony's walkman -> discman -> mp3 player/ipod -> smart phone+head phone? illegal drugs are more idiot but it's common among some people. it's called "natural selection" Posted at 2023-11-11 by user156955 I completely agree, let's hope that people who listen to music on their bikes don't kill anyone the moment they kill themselves on their bikes. And let's use only legal psychotropic drugs Posted at 2023-11-12 by HughB I think it is personal choice, but do agree its a dangerous thing to do. Personally I would never wear headphones on a bike or in a car. I do see people do this. I dont feel safe on a bike unless I can hear what is around me. I do recall that LSD was first experienced whilst riding a bike. NOTE: I am not advocating LSD and would never do it. Besides if you take to much LDS you end up with dyslexia. Posted at 2023-11-12 by user140377 uhm I wonder what the deal with bikes is here. The first mention I see is the post by user156955 who brought it up with the warning in the very same post. For some reason I don't get this person associates listening to music to music while riding a bike. Lets just stop this discussion here and I spare you my view on it. Posted at 2023-11-14 by Fteacher I had lots of fun with this one:
Not supporting LSD here, btw. About listening to surroundings while exercising, I have to mention that bone conduction earphones are pretty trendy amongst runners and cyclists... It's a bit like having a background music in a movie, while still being able to hear perfectly clearly what's going on around (except if you put volume really too loud). https://piped.video/watch?v=M3xrcsCGnSY Posted at 2023-11-14 by HughB :) Posted at 2024-03-26 by Tx Is a v3 still an option for the future? I'm just asking because my BangleJS2 (I love it) is getting somehow old. Not in the meaning of old hardware, but simply it becomes worn out and I'm now in the situation of thinking about a new watch. Not tomorrow, but this year. But I don't find a better fit for me than an open watch. BangleJS is sold out at Espruino dealers here in Germany so this is also not an option. Posted at 2024-03-26 by user140377 uhm, what do you mean by "worn out"? Posted at 2024-03-26 by Tx Scratches, Button and one of my two kickstartes died of corrosion of the contacts. On the second one the corrosion is starting although it is covered with a plastic strip. Posted at 2024-03-26 by user140377 Try nail polish on the contacts. For the display try scratch remover polish. Not sure what to do about the button. Posted at 2024-03-26 by Tx Thank you for the hints, but I just wanted to know whether there will be a V3 in sight somewhere in 2024/25, just for the decision to stay or to move to other watches. Posted at 2024-03-27 by Fteacher It may come with a higher delivery cost, but I had my Bj2 sent from GB (Espruino shop) to Australia (Kickstarter campaign). I've checked the website and Germany is in the destination country list https://www.espruino.com/Bangle.js2 , so it looks like you can still order it :). Also, there's a silicon protective cover in this online shop, you might be interested in if you bump it on a regular base. Posted at 2024-03-27 by @gfwilliams Hi - there are no immediate plans for a Bangle.js 3, in fact I'm due a delivery of another large batch of Bangle.js 2 in a few weeks so there definitely won't be anything in 2024. While I'm interested in getting a wishlist for a Bangle.js 3 to see what people like and don't like, and doing one at some point, I want to release some other Espruino-based devices before I even consider a v3 Bangle. Right now Bangle.js 2 does a lot of things right, and while it can doubtless be improved the cost of developing a brand new device is huge, so I can't afford to just keep pushing new ones out every 2 years unless it's going to be a vast improvement :) Posted at 2024-03-29 by Tx Hi Gordon, thank you for your reply. That is the information i was looking for. Especially that BangleJS v2 will be continued for the next time. So I consider to buy another one. Tx Posted at 2024-04-03 by franz_banglejs FYI, I bought my BangleJS 2 at Berrybase (here in Germany) in September last year. Posted at 2024-04-16 by user107850 My wishlist:
I think that there is demand for really programmable smartwatches. So far the only ones I am aware of are yours and PineTime. Posted at 2024-04-16 by Michiel
They are out of stock again, but said they will order a new batch which should be available in three weeks. Posted at 2024-04-19 by user157757 Earbuds would be a good new device to release...we can call them bangle buds, rolls off the tongue...and any new watch should be circular, not the "apple-like" rectangular shape the bangle 2 currently resembles. Apple is the devil Posted at 2024-04-19 by @gfwilliams The watch shape really comes down to the display. I think the memory LCD is a good fit for Espruino - it's low power, and low enough pixel count the processor can update it quickly. Having to go for round limits your options a bit - it'll also ensure the vast majority of existing apps won't work... That seems like a bit hit to take just for aesthetics. For ear buds - I just wonder what features Espruino could add in an ear bud? I guess if it had some voice recognition and synthesis built in, and then with JS you could script what happened - but that's quite a step away from the kind of things Espruino is normally used for! Posted at 2024-04-19 by @fanoush
In theory what we could add is hacking some way of streaming audio into the ear buds from other BLE espruino devices. However the chances of nrf52 being in earbuds is probably zero, maybe newer (nrf53 and up) are a bit more likely with BLE audio coming. Or when linking some text to speech engine into the ear buds firmware the data transfers could be pretty low (just sending text). Or MIDI over BLE could work. Also it could act as a HID device. Posted at 2024-04-19 by user140377 Or how about the buds having build in storage? Posted at 2024-04-19 by @andresdju
Some of us prefer a rectangular watch while others prefer a circular one. Analog wristwatches used to be circular because they make better use of the space for the hands (rectangular watches also existed, but were less common). Digital watches since the 1970's have been usually rectangular because they make better use of rectangular displays (which are better from a hardware point of view and for displaying information). Circular digital watches are the "new trend" and in my opinion are worse for ergonomics and displaying information. I think that nearly all of us would agree that circular watches with rectangular displays (like Bangle.js 1) are the worst of both worlds. I really like the Bangle.js 2 display, but I would prefer the display to be larger with thinner bezels.
Yes, but they didn't invent rectangular watches (like with most things people associate Apple with). Posted at 2024-04-19 by @fanoush
Indeed, and by Posted at 2024-04-19 by @andresdju
I agree, Bangle.js 2 is more similar to Amazfit Bip smartwatches. Posted at 2024-04-19 by @gfwilliams Definitely from a technical standpoint, round watches are a total pain - you still need to store and transmit a square buffer even for the round screen, so you're wasting 1/4 of your memory and bandwidth. I can see the appeal of round watches, but I think that for Bangle.js where we're trying to be quite 'down to earth', round isn't a great fit. And yes, I'd love a bigger display and smaller bezel too, but display choices are pretty limited. For some reason, 1.28" screens seem kind of a standard for transflective displays. There might be some ST7301 based ones coming out at some point, but I haven't seen anything yet Posted at 2024-04-19 by @fanoush
Actually it is a bit of pain but it is doable, if you store the circle as lines with variable length and keep size (or accumulated offset) of each line (which is even symmetrical) you can save the memory. then the pixel location in the framebuffer is not ywidth+x but something like yoffsets[y]+x. when sending over spi it is sent by lines so is not that much slower. Did not do it in the end but was thinking about it for the G5 watch (454x454 resolution). 454454=206116, 3.14*227^2~=161802 Posted at 2024-04-22 by @gfwilliams Oof. Yes, I guess that's doable! On the Starfield watch we did I just used the whole buffer but I used the corners to store extra data. So as the hands moved we stored what was in the background behind them in the corner of the screen so we didn't have to redraw everything - it worked quite well. Posted at 2024-04-22 by JeonLab The best feature of Bangle.js 2 is the memory LCD in my opinion. You don’t need to tilt, touch or press a button to check time, date, steps or any other info you’d like to see if you have set up your clock and widgets. I have used TicWatch pro GPS for a while and I loved their dual screen with the LCD on top of the color screen. That really saves a lot of battery and finger or wrist interaction. So if there will be the next versions, I’d like to keep the same or better(bigger) memory LCD. Posted at 2024-04-22 by @halemmerich There is for example https://ifan-display.com/product/1-2-inch-round-transflective-tft-lcd/ which is a round 240 by 240 pixel display with relatively small borders. At 1.2" it is a bit small but generally square 176x176 pixel Bangle 2 apps would fit in this with only a few pixels cut off at the corners. So there would be a way to use the "legacy" apps without changes on a round display. Posted at 2024-05-05 by user158069 I love everything about the Bangle JS 2. It's really the perfect compromise between battery life, size, robustness, and functionality. Upgrading the HR sensor and adding a gyro would be a great improvement for the next version, all incremental changes that maintain Bangle's niche in the marketplace and should be doable based on the current proprietary marketplace. Definitely more flash memory. IMHO, ambient audio is overrated, both input and output. WiFi is way too power hungry, as are more colorful displays. Posted at 2024-05-05 by @halemmerich Amazfit BIP S has a very similar transflective display with the same resolution but 64 colors instead of 8. That would remove the need to dither and is lots more readable for text in colors the bangle would have to dither. Needs a bit more bandwidth and RAM but probably makes up for that in saved CPU cycles for the dithering. Posted at 2024-05-06 by @fanoush
Do you have it and can you compare how white color looks on both, preferably outside? Similar/same 64 color screen is in DK08 watch and there the white is not so nice. Bangle 2 screen has better contrast and is a bit nicer outside. As for outdoor visibility I would not trade DK08 64 color for bangle 8 color but maybe Amazfit screen is better. I've posted some photo for comparison somewhere but cannot find it now. DK08 is still good enough but Bangle 2 is better - possibly because of only 8 colors. EDIT: found it, here https://imgur.com/a/DzYhaIg , bangle 2 screen is actually slightly better also indoors in low light when backlight is turned off Posted at 2024-05-06 by @halemmerich I think you are correct in regard to the DK08 probably having the same display as the BIP S, the display differences are very close to what your pictures show. I had remembered the display to be better since it is the one point I liked better on the BIP S as I got my Bangle. But in hindsight the tradeoff between less colors vs. more contrast might actually be in favor of the Bangle display for me overall. The moment the backlight comes into play its hands down the 64 color display of the BIP S. Posted at 2024-05-21 by Edd Plus 1 for adding buttons. You don't need loads but 1 just isn't quite enough. I agree re the square screen and I'd prefer better waterproofing to the barometer personally. A few more colors on the screen would be helpful when it comes to reading widgets etc as small ones get harder to differentiate due to the lack of contrast/different colors. A slightly faster GPS lock would be nice but I assume that can be mitigated with AGPS anyway. Posted at 2024-05-29 by @devsnd In the hopes that my voice for a next bangle shall be heard, I also have a wish list for what would make it an even greater device for version 3. Sorry for the wall of text, you can read the conclusion for a TL;DR: ** Battery **
** Speed ** ** Screen **
** Environment Sensors and Water resistance **
Anyway, it would be awesome to keep it on when swimming or when taking a shower. Not necessarily because I need to check my messages in the shower, but rather because I'm often afraid to forget to remove it before. ** Buttons ** ** Connectivity ** Also it would be great if the watch had Wifi. I wouldn't want to use it all the time as that would kill the battery super quick, but I have Wifi available all the time when I am indoors and it would be great if the watch could then work more autonomously, so I could leave my phone at home. My bet would be that a bunch of people would build low-bandwidth server applications that work well with the watch and that would be awesome. (this could also nicely tie into the other espruino powered devices) ** Contactless Payment ** ** Health Sensors ** It would be great to have an hardware upgrade here for more reliable sensors. If I could wish for anything, then also a blood oxygen sensor would be awesome. ** Conclusion ** Posted at 2024-05-29 by @fanoush
yes
no, you need far more than NFC to do that. typical debit/credit card has secure CPU often with specific secure applications (possibly written in Java) uploaded by bank/visa/mastercard/manufacturer at card creation time also check some answer here https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/18627/nrf52840-hce-as-a-payment-card or the picture in https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/offhost-payment-sync - notably the UICC box there and/or read this https://trustedconnectivityalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/NFCPaymentUICCConfiguration_v1.0FINAL.pdf (e.g. chapter 7) EDIT: HCE in the first link IMO means Host Card Emulation - see also https://developer.android.com/develop/connectivity/nfc/hce Posted at 2024-05-29 by Ivor yeah, excellent info, basically "no" :) Posted at 2024-05-29 by ccchan I'll say it's called always on display. Posted at 2024-05-29 by @fanoush
if you mean the term "memory LCD" that's how Sharp is calling their products Posted at 2024-05-30 by user154609 I vote for an epaper-display. Posted at 2024-06-03 by @gfwilliams Thanks - I'm not sure if you're aware but there is a power monitor app, and actually the 2v22 release added something into the firmware for power monitoring (but there's no app for that yet). Ideally what's needed is for us to have a way to estimate power usage of apps and report it in the app loader - but doing that is quite a big deal. A faster CPU might be an idea but also it's balancing power consumption so we continue to get that long battery life. It is possible to build a firmware where the JavaScript code is stored on internal flash (and the data on external flash), which can really help with execution speed - but it was always a bit beta - I could try and make it available for those interested though. @fanoush have you had any success with that recently? I tried doing a build just now and it didn't seem like it was working reliably Posted at 2024-06-03 by @fanoush
Not recently, Espruino is quickly moving target, and I was using it on other watches, however it may be good idea to have build with this for Bangle 2 even if everything by default still goes to SPI flash. Then maybe if the apploader had some settable regular expression to send some files to internal flash it could be better tested. Not sure how much space there is with the factory content present so whether all app js code could fit into internal flash. Posted at 2024-06-03 by @gfwilliams Ok, thanks. I just tried again and with a factory reset it appears to work ok now. There are now builds available at: https://www.espruino.com/binaries/travis/master/ with the name You may well need to do a factory reset after installing it (or I guess ideally a backup + restore) though. The firmware itself puts any Posted at 2024-06-03 by @thyttan Tried Posted at 2024-06-04 by @gfwilliams Ok, thanks - that's a shame though. I took a quick look and I can't see an obvious reason why compaction is failing so I've just disabled cutting edge builds for it for now so nobody gets confused and installs a broken firmware. The one you tested is still available at: https://www.espruino.com/binaries/travis/9898ae3a57448e441e912b56ba6b28d3ff8e739c/ if others want to give it a try... Posted at 2024-06-30 by Michiel
They are on stock again at Berrybase.de for €96,70. Interesting option for people in the EU. I just ordered three watches. Posted at 2024-08-19 by @thyttan Add to wishlist:
I'd love to make an app that noticed when I was exposed to high UV for an extended period of time and told me to go into the shade. Posted at 2024-08-19 by user140377 I have a sensor for that, it sits directly beside (and under) my watch. If it turns red from my usual northern european color it was too long. Posted at 2024-08-19 by @thyttan Does it have a name? :) Posted at 2024-08-27 by @gfwilliams It is actually possible to attach a microcontroller to the Bangle's SWD pins and to use that to communicate, so with a small PCB with a light sensor and a cheap micro you could communicate that info back to Bangle.js. ... but yes, I think if a Bangle.js 3 was done such that it could be opened I'd definitely add some spare IO so extra sensors/etc could be added. Realistically for something like light you'd need to modify the case though. Posted at 2024-08-28 by @thyttan Interesting! I'm probably not the person that would install their own extra sensors though - I think :) Posted at 2024-08-30 by user158863 I vote for the waterproof feature. Posted at 2024-08-30 by @andresdju
What does 1ATM mean? If you mean swimming underwater up to 10 meters, I don't think so. 1ATM more or less means: With a watch in new condition, it should survive light rain if you don't push the button with a drop of water around it. That's what bangle.js already has. Gluing the barometer hole could help, but even then I would not use it for swimming, bathing, showering, putting it under the tap... By the way, salty water would ruin the charging and programming contacts very rapidly. Waterproofing is a complex topic. There are some comments and conversations here about it: https://forum.espruino.com/comments/16734558/ https://forum.espruino.com/conversations/389438/ There is also a crazy guy that probably has the most waterproof bangle.js "mod": https://forum.espruino.com/conversations/396132/ Posted at 2024-09-01 by user158872 I am a die hard Android user, or maybe I should say I am a die hard anti iPhone person.. 🤔 Posted at 2024-09-01 by user158872 I don't know if I need a barometer.. I guess if the question is do you want a barometer or better water proofing then I might choose better water proofing.. Posted at 2024-09-01 by user158872 for me the battery is the most important thing. sure a stronger vibration motor might be nice and a better screen is always appreciated but in considerations for what a new build would potentially look like I would not want to make changes that would decrease the battery life expectancy |
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Posted at 2024-09-04 by @gfwilliams Thanks - yes, I think the Bangle's battery life helps to set it apart from a lot of other smartwatches at the moment. While covering the barometer hole can help, there's also an issue with water ingress in the button. It does have a rubber o-ring seal and grease in there which should fend off a bit of water, but I can't recommend it for submersion. I think in some cases where people have repeatedly showered with it, the detergent has slowly got rid of the grease in the button and then water has got in, or perhaps the tolerances aren't quite right on some of them. Personally I'd only really be happy calling a new watch waterproof if it had something like a silicone over-cast so there is literally no hole (rubber o-ring or otherwise) that water could get in, but doing that in a way that doesn't look really blocky could be quite tricky! Posted at 2024-10-11 by Wend1go It would be nice if v3 had an infrared transceiver LED built in like the Lilygo T-Watch. It would be possible to write an app that records the light pattern of the tv remote for adjusting the audio volume, next/previous channel and then control the tv by swiping on the watch. As someone who loves playing and developing games, I'd also like to have some more input methods for v3. At least 2 physical buttons would be great (better 4) or a gyroscope that could be used for moving a ball through a maze or as a steering wheel. Personally I don't need it to be waterproof. Making it water resistant with some rubber or silicone would be enough for me, since the sensors aren't able to record sensible data while swimming anyways and you can still take it off when showering. Being able to easily change the battery as an end user would be more important to me. EDIT: Posted at 2024-10-20 by user159149 Hope Watch JS3 come out soon :) Posted at 2024-12-06 by fanoushs-punching-bag nm Posted at 2024-12-07 by @fanoush
You did not add a link to that message. But anyway, I think you are severely mistaken about the 'clones' and also the sustainability. But let's continue there, not here. Posted at 2024-12-09 by @gfwilliams This is the message for others: https://forum.espruino.com/conversations/401307/ Posted at 2025-01-28 by @thyttan Hi, the Pebble is coming back: https://ericmigi.com/blog/why-were-bringing-pebble-back What if the next pebble hardware was also the Bangle.js 3?! Maybe there's an opportunity here for a joint hardware platform that can run PebbleOS and Bangle.js? May also interest @user156811 ? Posted at 2025-01-28 by user156955 it seems you've tagged me by mistake. they'll raise money for another proprietary watch and sell the company again, and for sure internet will be full of marketing spam, just like in 2013, why should it interest me? Posted at 2025-01-28 by @thyttan
That's weird, as you can see in my message I don't tag you in it. 🤔 It seems it will be open source this time around: Today’s big news - Google has open sourced PebbleOS!. Posted at 2025-01-28 by user156955 yeah, sorry, I've received an email for some reason O_O it's not opensource, most of parts are closed Posted at 2025-01-28 by @thyttan
They claim in an interview with the Verge that they will open source stuff they build going forward. https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/27/24352968/pebble-smartwatch-open-source-google-comeback Posted at 2025-01-28 by @allObjects @thyttan, interesting! ...and some diversion. Having code open source is a great education / learning opportunity. Posted at 2025-01-29 by @gfwilliams Thanks - that really is interesting. It sure feels like Bangle.js is pretty much as close to the Pebble as you can get right now - I wonder if he tried it. It feels like Bangle.js ticks off most of what he mentions in his blog post apart from the fact it only has one button. Small bit of trivia: back in 2016 Pebble actually looked at using Espruino as a scripting language for the Pebble, but in the end went with something else (JerryScript I think?) because they could compile to bytecode which was faster - Espruino has improved massively in speed/functionality since then though. Posted at 2025-01-29 by Shiron3ko This makes me very excited. The Bangle was the first watch I felt was a suitable replacement for my beloved Pebble Time and has been my daily watch for over a year. The additional features of GPS and HR were great for my fitness journey too. Having used both for long enough now, I can say that for my uses, which are fairly simple, the Bangle is a very close second to my Pebble. There are advantages to the touch screen for on watch applications/configuration, however I feel that my preferred interface is the four buttons the pebble time had. The touch screen interfaces done on watch could be configured through the options in a companion app, admittedly I have no experience writing the applications, but I have used the settings in some apps to control what goes whereon my pebble. The one feature I miss most from my pebble is being able to assign different functions/applications to the long press of the buttons. i.e. a quiet mode, which silenced the buzz and backlight, long press to open settings, or app a, app b etc. If Bangle.JS3 comes out with 4 buttons like the pebble time, it would be very difficult for me to to chose between the two. Posted at 2025-01-29 by @gfwilliams There is actually a 'pattern launcher' app which allows you to define certain gestures on the touchscreen to do certain things (https://banglejs.com/apps/?id=ptlaunch) so you could combine it with https://banglejs.com/apps/?id=a_dndtoggle to toggle DND - but it's not in there by default. But yes, buttons would be a huge improvement and would allow for some nice custom shortcuts. I haven't started work on a Bangle.js 3 yet, but buttons and a bigger screen are 100% on the list. I'm not quite sure how to feel about the new Pebble announcement - it'll be great if it stirs up a bit more interest and excitement in sunlight-readable, low-power watches. Pebble's got such a following that right from the start they're going to be looking at preorders of 100,000+ devices, and that gives them a lot more choice with hardware compared to Bangle.js where we'd be really lucky to ship 5000 a year. Posted at 2025-01-29 by yngv126399 This could be huge for you. Very exciting... Posted at 2025-01-31 by Shiron3ko Hi Gordon, I didn't mean for my enthusiasm and nostalgia for Pebble to be a slight against your product and efforts. I have been incredibly pleased with the Bangle 2 and will continue to use it. I completely understand your uncertainty. I am of the opinion that simple, low power tech that achieves a core set of goals is better than over the top and fancy things. Pebble found that niche and I think you've done a great job with the Bangle too. I hope more people find it :) Posted at 2025-02-04 by @thyttan They're adding nRF52840 (same chip as Bangle.js 2) support in pebbleOS:
So they may be looking at using that for their next/first watch. Getting Bangle.js to run on it may be easier than what might otherwise have been the case? (pushing the 'joint hardware platform' narrative.. :p) Off topic: Someone over at reddit is looking at porting pebbleOS to PineTime: https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/s/pOivx2BUPo Posted at 2025-02-05 by @fanoush There is nrf52840 board with 4 buttons https://github.com/coredevices/pebble/blob/b7c502b6fd692ef95f7d79fb94611dec2dbb5bd3/src/fw/board/boards/board_asterix.h What is pretty strange that they use extra Dialog DA14681 bluetooth chip there in the same file that has NRF52 pin definitions and some constants in that file look like from stm32 SDK like Posted at 2025-02-05 by @gfwilliams @Shiron3ko it wasn't taken as a slight at all! I think the appetite for a new Pebble shows there's still demand for a low-power long-battery-life smartwatch. @fanoush I'm pretty sure the original Pebble was STM32 with an external BLE chip (the dialog one?) so that may be where they come from - I guess they will try and pull those out into separate files. Very interesting about the nRF52840 port - that's really good to know! When I was at FOSDEM last weekend someone came up and said "maybe someone could port PebbleOS to run on the Bangle" and that looks increasingly possible now. Obviously the Bangle lacks the extra buttons, but then it does have a touchscreen so I can imagine you could fake them at least enough for people to have a workable (if not ideal) PebbleOS watch. ... so from that point of view it may actually end up being quite good for Bangle.js - while we might not have people using the firmware, it's possible that quite a lot of Bangles will get sold just to people who want to try out PebbleOS! Longer term, another benefit is that right now the manufacturer of Bangle.js is struggling to get hold of screens - most cheaper smartwatches are moving to TFTs. If PebbleOS creates more demand for always-on displays that might give us a bit more choice on what we can use for something like a Bangle.js 3. Posted at 2025-02-07 by @gfwilliams Just FYI looks like the RePebble project is targeting nRF52840 with Nordic softdevice (7.2.0) and a memory LCD display (at least looking at their prototype): https://ericmigi.com/blog/how-to-help-build-open-source-pebble-software So it's looking increasingly possible that a build that would run on Bangle.js 2 is viable! Posted at 2025-02-07 by @fanoush
Also the other way, run Espruino/Bangle.js on new Pebble :-) Posted at 2025-02-07 by @gfwilliams I've been having a look into porting Pebble to the Bangle.js watch - info at https://forum.espruino.com/conversations/402438/ ... and yes, potentially it could be some interesting hardware to run Bangle.js on as well when it arrives. |
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... actual (new) link: https://github.com/orgs/espruino/discussions/7339 |
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Is the UNA Watch hardware a Bangle.js 3 candidate? |
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Body held together by screws, waterproof, charge (data connection?) via usb-c. |
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Interesting! I guess it depends on the processor. They mention ARM Cortex-M33 and a 'ble coprocessor' so it could be a nRF5340? Nordic aren't supporting their original software SDK for newer processors (requiring Zephyr instead), so despite it being another Nordic chip it might be a bit of a pain to port Espruino to it. I'd be a little anxious about it - there's no mention of open software anywhere I can see... so even if you can open your watch, if they run out of money and the app gets removes/servers go down there may not be spares or servers running to support it for long :( USB-C charging is an interesting idea - maybe I'm being paranoid after the issues making a single button-hole on Bangle.js 2 watertight (and also on Bangle.js 1) but I wouldn't have wanted to do it :) |
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Yeah, me too |
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My opinionated view: First priority
Second priority
Things I do not personally care about
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On the connectivity front, did you change your phone's battery saving settings for Gadgetbridge and enable auto-connect? Usually Bangle.js is very reliable. Personally I really like GPS (for running or acting as a speedo) but it's quite a lot of extra area/cost and mostly people complain it's not as good as their phone, so maybe it doesn't make sense. HRM I think enough people care about we'd need to keep, even though it's kind of a pain (another hole in the case to worry out). Magnetometer/accelerometer are super easy to add compared to everything else so I don't really see why they'd ever be left out. I'd keep touchscreen though - enough apps use it now that to make it compatible with new apps we'd want it. And it also really makes sense for up/down/left/right actions. Mic - in theory, it'd be good. As mentioned in your other post though, any holes in the case that have to be sealed against a device on the PCB are problematic though. I'd love to be able to make a device that I could go swimming in the sea with and not care about, and if a mic got in the way of that I don't think it's worth it. |
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Thanks, @gfwilliams . Regarding the connectivity, yes, auto-connect was enabled and battery settings were unrestricted. Same gadgetbridge works very reliably with amazfit bip. Not sure what the problem was. Anyhow I don't have anything to test on now. But if/when I have the 3rd version, I will report back if I'm still getting connectivity issues. |
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I got the BangleJS 2 specifically because it was the best option I could find for a small, programmable GPS device with a built-in battery. That’s really all I need. For me, the ideal BangleJS 3 would simply have a more accurate GPS, a bit more RAM and storage, and ideally some way to make HTTP requests, either via a Wi-Fi module or through BLE. IP68 Would also be nice. |
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Thanks! I'll definitely see what the cost/difficulty of adding GPS in a new device is - if it can be done without raising the cost too much it's well worth it.
You can do this through Gadgetbridge on your phone at the moment (https://www.espruino.com/Gadgetbridge#http-requests) but obviously wifi would be better (albeit with decreased battery life) |
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Core Devices has chosen the chip for their Time 2 watch:
https://ericmigi.com/blog/how-to-build-a-smartwatch-picking-a-chip Maybe interesting when considering options for Bangle.js 3. |
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Eric Migicowsky interviews the CEO of the chip company on his podcast there who seems quite hyped about smart watches! The same CEO is now active in the Rebble discord server |
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Thanks - that's very interesting! It's a bit ambitious to completely swap architectures for a different variant of the watch, especially with quite a small software team. I know what he means about Nordic though - they don't seem particularly interested in hanging on to customers at the moment. Looks like a nice chip though - it's interesting that so many of these devices are completely ditching internal flash to get the costs down. I'm hoping for a few more like the ESP32-C3FH4X where they put the flash die in-package though. |
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Interesting is that they mentioned new nrf54L but they did not mention nrf5340 - that one has 512KB RAM on the app core as they wanted - is that one expensive too? Just recently I got relatively cheap nrf5340 test board https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006107849357.html and surprisingly it was very easy to get it working with Nordic VS Code extension. Even my $10 JLink V9 clone was able to debug C source code in VS Code. And since the BLE traffic runs on networking core, one can freely set breakpoints and step through code and continue without the whole BLE stack crashing, big change when compared to nrf52 :-) |
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I'm so happy/excited to see that @gfwilliams wrote that "buttons and a bigger screen are 100% on the list"! Recently I've been running into memory and storage limitations with my app on my Bangle 1 so decided to port it to my Bangle 2. (I also wasn't aware of the Layout module when writing my app for the Bangle 1 so thought it would be good to use it in anticipation of a Bangle 3.) Well I worried that an entirely touchscreen-dependent version of my app would be too difficult to use (I had found the responsiveness of the Bangle 1 touchscreen to be unreliable so made my app completely button-based) but was very pleasantly surprised to discover that it actually works quite well. The only usability issue I encountered is that the touchscreen is just a little too small (and a little too dim under indoor lighting), making it challenging to precisely activate smaller target regions on the screen. So a Bangle 3 with a bigger screen would be very welcome! |
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Thanks! On the Bangle.js 2 it's worth calibrating the touchscreen - often people touch the screen with different parts of their finger and it can really help to have run through the calibration to get it more accurate. It'll be a while before I get around to a Bangle.js 3 (as I said in that comment we've currently got a large order of Bangle.js 2 on the way to us) but yes, the plan is to try and find a bigger screen to use. It can be hard though - for instance the one they're using for the new Pebble Color is already discontinued, and they're just working through ~60k units of old stock and then that'll be it. |
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I really love my Bangle.js 2 and just want to thank you so much for inventing and maintaining the espruino platform. My Wishlist for a v3 would be a much better GPS module. My original reason was to get a Runners watch where all data is my own and exportable, that is more than accomplished (still i'm writing my own run++ app, because quite some features are missing, which are basicly already recorded but not display (which cost premium subscription on many commercial running apps). Hopefully i can put the app in a few month into the repo. But back to topic: The distance (and waypoints), measured by the Run+ and Recorder apps, differ from each other and from a separate recorder android app and iphone app. In rare cases its more than one km, which really destroys the usability of a pace/min value. But I think there are many factors that this is just a software thing, i made some progress with my own app by only using every n-th gps or even to some simple direction checking. Buttons would be nice, but i find the touchscreen very usabled. WIFI would be very very nice, I was using a Watchy before and get my work railway data every morning direct live on my watch, that was very helpful. To be honest i never thought a opensource smartwatch wouldn't have WIFI and didn't looked in the bangles specs. If i had known before that the bangle didn't has wifi i would never brought it. And as of today i love the bangle so match that i can't imaging a life without it ;-) Still i feel a little trapped in bluetooth hell and i don't like the idea of routing it over the gadgetbridge. I would downvote a better display, i really like it as it is. A paperink would be nice though, but since the battery time, with two recorded runs a week, is still fabulous: no need to. So again a very big thank you |
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Thanks! It's interesting you find the display fine! I wouldn't swap the sunlight readability for anything, but IMO a bit of extra size wouldn't hurt!
That would be great! If you could add the extra stats to the
It's tricky - the recorder is recording average GPS points every 10 seconds by default, and the distance is (afaik) the sum of the distance between those. Run+ will use the distance between every GPS point (which come in every second) but that can add 'noise'. In the past someone had added a Kalman filter to the GPS coordinates (which takes out that noise), but the app wasn't maintained and stopped working and I couldn't figure out why (and replaced it with the Run app eventually). If you're interested the code for the Kalman filter was https://github.com/espruino/BangleApps/blob/2e8b9ac2cbd0ea70248bbd2ece53ae37203eab7e/apps/banglerun/src/gps.ts#L94
Do you use the Assisted GPS app before each run? There were some changes I added a few months ago to give the GPS rough time+location values and I've been super impressed with the fix time if I run the GPS after doing that now. We should probably have a way to start off the sync more easily (there is an app that automatically does it via Gadgetbridge, but it can't give the GPS your current location as it doesn't know).
I think I've mentioned elsewhere here, but it is a bit of a power hog (moreso even than GPS). I'd love to add it but I think right now it's probably not going to be possible (either I have to switch CPU family which is a ton of work, or I add a separate WiFi chip which will add a lot of bulk). In an ideal world a new Bangle would have the ability to unscrew the back and add a new thicker back with features like WiFi for those than want it, but I'm not sure how popular that'd be. |
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Actually Nordic has companion wifi chip that is supposed to be used even with nrf52840 And BTW the nrf54L15 modules are quite cheap, I got few (of this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008574098582.html), soldered it on breakout board and will try it, it has quite a bit lower power consumption and interesting flash memory technology and even one spare RISC-V core. A minor step up in everything compared to 52840. Well except SRAM size being same, but it is supposed to be the cheaper part of nrf54 family. However moving to newer nrfConnect SDK with Espruino will be painful. It is using cmake just as ESP or RP2350/2040 SDKs. |
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I'm starting to look into a new Bangle a little more seriously now (but don't expect anything for at least another 18 months!), but it's proving quite difficult to find good sunlight readable screens as manufacturers don't seem to be making them much any more. The new Pebble Core Time 2 (https://store.repebble.com/) uses what seems to be a really nice display, but Pebble bought up literally the entire stock (60k units) in April, so that's out! So how does everyone feel about a round memory LCD? We've found one that's 30mm x 30mm active area, 218x218 pixels, 64 color (so a big step up on Bangle.js 2's 8 colors!). I believe it's the one used in Garmin watches. The pixel density is high enough that there's a full 154x154 pixel square in the middle, so any square Bangle.js 2 app could be rendered with just the corner 10px clipped off, so it should be pretty backwards compatible. |
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This looks great, the price is $299 though. But you probably get what you pay for, the choice of sensors looks very good, they even claim it can do medical-grade blood pressure (with no certifications). So maybe such sensors may push the price up. And BTW they use nRF5340 which is nice too. |
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It looks really interesting. I have used other HRM sensors (I'm pretty sure even the MAX30101) for some consultancy projects in the past, but it's not just the sensor, it's getting it fitted behind a waterproof window without light bleed as well as what you do with the data. I had a quick check to try and find their algorithm, and while I can't find it, they do calculate HRV which makes me think they try and detect individual pulses. That's what we did with the old, open algorithm and while it works great when not moving, it's a disaster for something like running where the actual PPG value varies far more with acceleration than it does with the pulse. It looks like they haven't really sold a ton of devices, and I do wonder whether their HRM detection is really going to be that amazing. It's fine shoving a load of nice hardware in a device, but as I've found with Bangle.js you've really got to test it on many different people in many different scenarios to actually get something reliable. |
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What i understood is that the hardware comes with firmware for all that https://www.analog.com/en/products/max32664.html - MAX32664 is a sensor hub family with embedded firmware and world-class algorithms for wearables. |
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Ahh, ok - thanks! I saw the "open source" and just assumed it was in the code - so that's very much not open source at all... I'm sure out of the box it'd be better but it doesn't give us any scope for changes or improvements later on. |
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I am just guessing but the 'sensor hub' chip is meant exactly for that - host firmware with other sensors attached. And when you see bottom of the https://www.analog.com/en/products/max32664.html page there is "D:Finger BPT, HRM & SpO2 firmware 40.6.0, 40.6.0" which exactly matches their description that blood pressure is finger only. OTOH the quality will be good. Google says that at least their SpO2 is FDA approved.
Well Bangle.js 2 is opensource too and yet we currently use the binary only vendor provided HRM algorithm. |
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is the round screen preferred, or are you considering it because you found a part ? If you find a round and a square screen for the same price, would you still go for the round one? |
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My potentially unpopular take: I really like the current 3 bit display. The colors are not too vivid, but it's exceptionally readable outdoors; especially when black & white. |
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Thanks - I like it too, and I definitely wouldn't want to go for anything less readable outside than the current option. If I could get the watch smaller so the screen/body ratio was better it could be an option. My problem is that a new Bangle.js is going to end up being more expensive as it'll be custom designed, and really I have to be able to justify that somehow. I can't just produce a new Bangle that's basically like the old one but with more buttons, no GPS and a higher price as I don't think many people will buy it. |
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I think here in the forum you get every possible answer and still there are only few people here. What about some poll about features used and wanted that would reach most/all bangle.js users - like putting a link to your gadgetbridge app or having page in the app loader website so every active watch user that would connect their watch could rate importance of current features and vote for a wishlist for possible future watch. Also maybe it could be editable and run over some time so people could think about it and you may add more questions/details. |
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We could link this discussion from the Bangle.js thread over at the Rebble Discord server and the Bangle.js subreddit to increase visibility. |
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maybe, but how would you evaluate it? with just a few people you already get many different answers for GPS or HRM or display shape, discussion is good for brainstorming the possibilities but may not help much for making the final decision |
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Dear all, I only recently discovered Banglejs in search of an open-source smart device. My studies are in mechanical engineering, and I'm only now developing a passion for computer science. I honestly believe that a potential Banglejs3 would require careful consideration of its form factor, and only then should we focus more on the app suite. My list: Top priority Mechanical objectives: Software goals: Secondary goals: |
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Hello, if you are new then don't hesitate to get Banglejs 2 if you don't have it yet. Possible Banglejs3 is still quite far away. |
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Bangle.js 3 is still a long way away - all we have right now is an idea for what display to use. Also: As well as waiting for a new watch to be designed, I'll need to build up enough cash reserves to pay for it. When I say "at least another 18 months" I really mean it :) |
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Dear @fanoush, i have an banglejs 2 and i love it. My bangle has a broken strap attachment, and I'm waiting to order a replacement strap, as per thread #7319. Unfortunately, I don't have a structured light camera with me for more precise image acquisition. Dear @gfwilliams, regarding a future Banglejs 3, obviously take all the time you need. Of course, reading this forum, I thought I'd contribute because I think a Banglejs's strong point is its repairability, combined with its waterproofness, making it a smartwatch that can be used in any context without having to worry about breaking. I currently find it quite amusing to see some people wearing an Apple Watch or a Samsung Watch but often worry about breaking them with a trivial impact. |
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Yes, thanks for letting me know your thoughts! Just for others, I should add that while Bangle.js is water resistant, it's not water proof in that you can't go swimming/showering/bathing with it. That is something I'd like to fix in a Bangle.js 3 (as well as general strength), but also there are quite a lot of people who don't want a massive device on their wrist. ... so it's going to end up being a bit of a compromise of size/weight vs battery. I'm definitely going to go for something unscrewable, so if I can find a way of letting the back get swapped out for a bigger one that'd allow for a massive battery then I'm all for it though. |
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I have a couple of personal wishlist items for Bangle.js 3:
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I use the bangle as a running watch, so gps is quite important for me. I would probably want to get the bangle.js3 when it comes out, but if it has no gps, it would make me think twice. Having a better gps, however, would be fantastic, since the one on the bangle.js2 is not super accurate, even if it is quite usable. Speaking of running, I can confirm that the hrm on the bangle.js2 is not very good. But I got a Polar H10, and it works perfectly out of the box with bthrm. Having reliable hrm on the wrist would be great, but maybe it's difficult? I'd say maybe worth the try :) I do think it would be a shame if it is significantly bigger, I really like the small size of the bangle.js2, it's great. About the screen:
More generally, having enough buttons to be able to not use the touchscreen at all would be great. Personally, I don't see a huge need for wifi myself, bluetooth seems to do what I want it to do. Also +1 on waterproofing :) |
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Right now, there's a |
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Having an app to turn the backlight on in response to either accelerometer double-taps, or the 'faceup' event might be cool |
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For me, I held off on buying BJS2 because I wanted a better screen, water proof, and a better heart rate monitor. My use case is sleep tracking, so I'm guessing tracking movement and heart rate would be the best way unless I want a professional sleep tracking device |
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I like the sound of speaker and mic both! (Music theory applications - I sing in a choir :) )
I like MORE :P (I'd like it if it was possible to put music on it). Not if it's too detrimental to size or price - but I believe memory can be very dense?
As I think was already mentioned, could WiFi go hand in hand with allowing MORE ;) flash memory? If transfer speeds were higher that way.
I've been hoping for a flashlight specifically - hype! I just hope we get it strong enough to be useful in many situations (but no unrealistic expectations here). Could we have them dimmable so we can program the intensity? RGB would be cool, only white would be fine as well. If there's a trade-off between colors and light intensity I would probably prioritize intensity. But if colors don't compromise intensity too much I'd find it fun.
While it would be fun to play around with for UI, I also don't feel strongly for its inclusion. Would it ever make sense for you to have one prototype with it made for yourself to evaluate it and compare to a prototype without it? If it were to become a weak point in terms of durability that would be sad.
Maybe there are cheap watches with the manufacturers knob available to buy and try on aliexpress? But again, not very important.
I like the idea of companion "GPS-PUCK". And I guess us with Bangle.js 1 & 2's already have them? Could I use the GPS from my Bangle 2 and feed it to the Bangle 3 on runs?
If the space or weight is better spared I would not miss it. I don't remembter when I used it last. |
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Honestly I'd prefer not to get sucked into discussions about the actual watch design - there are probably 500 or more replies on this thread alone, only talking about features. If we get everyone discussing how they want it to look it's just going to be a huge mess of conflicting ideas. For now, the plan is to go for something a little like a baby Garmin Fenix 7 (with the display going as close to the edge as we can get) - with a slightly raised metal bezel to protect the glass, but plastic body behind that to keep the weight down and allow some decent Bluetooth range. |
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@gfwilliams : How many buttons were you thinking of adding? |
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Gyroscope - could that be interesting to enable more advanced applications wrt movement and activities? Not sure how big difference it makes over just the accelerometer. |
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Are you considering doing what garmin & others do for flashlight and add a red light in the middle for low-light applications, or can we get away with just using the dimmable, individually-adressable white LEDs instead? |
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I'm looking at 4 buttons - 3 on the right (up/down/select) and one on the left (back) The plan is for there to be a gyro, so hopefully we can look at some sensor fusion stuff so it can have a guess at absolute position at least (which at minimum will make the compass more useful). For the flashlight, I wanted a bunch of individually addressable LEDs, but the company working on it prefer to have 1 or 2 big LEDs and a lens (which is probably better for a flashlight) so right now the plan is to have one powerful while LED, but two individually addressable LEDs either side, so we can have dim red, but also other colours and patterns to use for notifications. |
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I know some people have suggested a skin temperature sensor, so I went ahead and found this one, which looks hyper-accurate, and relatively easy to install. The only caveat is that it requires a metal backplate/contact point with the skin, and needs grooves around it on the backplate to prevent cpu/other component's heat from getting to it. It also looks like it needs thermal paste for thermal conductivity, but it would be awesome if we could get this in. @gfwilliams I don't know if you were already considering a metal backplate or not, but it would be really nice for overall health, cycle tracking, sleep data, even predicting illnesses before the onset of any other symptoms (would be a pretty cool app) |
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If there's a lot of demand for something then yes, but realistically at first I'll just provide the CAD files for a larger back, so someone could print/get one printed. Because of the wireless charging I may have to sell charging coils you can insert into the back so you can continue to charge your Bangle. One thing we are going to say though: if you unscrew/change the back, as far as I'm concerned the warranty is void and the watch stops being waterproof. |
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Interesting, how's the waterproofing going to work? Is it silicone that needs to be reglued every time you open, or will it have a rubber seal like some watches now? |
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A rubber seal - but still if someone opens it there's a risk it might not be reseated right, or some dust gets in the way and stops the seal |
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Cool! If someone does decide to pop a few extra sensors on a different back, how would the software integration look like? Would we have to do analog. Read, or will there be a more built in way of getting the values from these sensors? |
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Realistically if someone dumps sensors in they're probably going to be on I2C - so you might have to read/write the registers on the chip. But if it's something that Espruino has a module for (or that someone makes a module for) then it's going to be pretty staightforward, like for instance: https://www.espruino.com/MS5803 |
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Coming in late to all this, and it sounds like it may be moot at this point, but I have discovered that I really love having the GPS on my BJS2 --- precisely because I have gotten spoiled with heading out for a run with no phone or other doodads in my pockets (or even no pockets at all). Then I fetch my routes though Gadgetbridge and upload to my Nextcloud instance, and everything is awesome. I am never going to swap watches before skipping out the door for a run; that would just be making life more complicated, not less. (I used to have a Garmin watch that came with a spiffy around-the-chest heart-rate sensor band. Did I ever use that? Nope.) I was actually originally thinking I would pass the BJS2 on to another family member and get one of the new Pebble reincarnations for myself, but between the GPS and the fun I am having playing around with the Bangle, I can't see that happening now. Ha! Just my datapoint... If BJS-3 has no GPS, I would likely try to keep my BJS-2 functional until a BJS-N with GPS arrives. |
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I personally love that the BangleJS 2 has GPS. I use it quite a bit and it has worked pretty well for my needs. Once and a while it gets impacted by very cloudy days but it doesn't impact me that much in the end as I can make due with just using my watch as a timer. I think it is unfair to compare to Garmin since Garmin is a 40 billion dollar company that can sell many units at a fairly high price. In my subjective opinion the feel of the banglejs 2 rivals watches from many different brands and I've had people ask about my watch. For me personally I wouldn't buy a watch without GPS. I know that might seem harsh but do run a decent amount and I need something to track distance. Would it be possible to either do some sort variant of the Banglejs 3 or have some sort of accessory you can buy? The accessory part is especially interesting to me as it could help solve the issue with battery life when using GPS. I'm envisioning something the size of a coin that would be much lighter than a phone but better than a watch. |
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A GPS add-on has been discussed quite a bit here. It's possible I may be able to do a GPS variant of the watch later on, but as an add-on I don't think the signal strength will make it useful. An external 'puck' could be an option - but Bangle.js has always been able to use Android phones for GPS, so if you have your phone on you that will work fine. As others suggested on here, a Bangle.js 2 could always be that 'GPS receiver' that provides GPS to the new watch, and I believe there are external Bluetooth LE GPS devices available which we could support and perhaps even stock/resell. |
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I'm surprised there are people who find the GPS in de Bangle.js 2 useful... I've never ever seen it get a fix, even with loaded AGPS, even after walking outside for an hour it still doesn't get a fix. For me the GPS-via-Android-phone function is perfect, it always works and is very quick to get a fix. |
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Just a quick question - how exactly does the bangle pull gps data in from an android? Does it ask the phone for a fix and then uses that locally, or does it save the gs the phone gives in a file somewhere? Just asking cause iOS gps is quite janky as of right now, so hopefully I can use what gadgetbridge does for iOS. |
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The Bangle lets the phone know it wants GPS, then the phone sends coordinates every second or so. See https://www.espruino.com/Gadgetbridge#how-it-works-internally and just search for 'gps' in that page |
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How does everyone feel about gas quality sensing? We're having a (membrane-covered) hole for a microphone, so in a way it doesn't hurt to have other air sensors in there next to it. It looks like it would add around $5 to the retail price of the watch to add a sensor that can sense volatile organic compounds as well as nitrous oxides, but that feels like quite a neat addition that might get more people interested in the watch, and which not many other devices support. For instance it could log pollution levels (NOx) over your day and give you a figure for how much pollution you were exposed to, perhaps even a warning if very high levels of NOx or combustible chemicals were encountered during the day. I'd have loved to put a BME688 in there (which can actually 'smell' out all kinds of different stuff) but the cost per unit is just too high at the moment to make it possible. |
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I vote yes for BME688! A question I had however, it seems like training it for ML and AI capabilities is done in the Bosch AI Studio. Will those ports/functionality then be available for us to access? I see it as either exposing the sensor for the ai lab to find out, or providing a more firmware level integration, where we have our own tool (a port of bosch's ai studio maybe), that we can test in from the IDE, maybe also allowing file uploads for different models so different apps can install new algorithms onto the sensor... Wdyt? |
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I have the same question as @enaon: how is gas going to get into the gas sensor? Is the membrane covering the mic hole gas-permeable but liquid-impermeable? (Maybe some hole-size/surface-tension magic?) I know of barometer sensors that are made with sealing gels that flex to transmit pressure but otherwise keep stuff out, but something like that won't work for a gas sensor. My other question is: how useful is a VOC sensor when it is strapped onto a human wrist? |
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in my area most of the time air pollution is PM2.5, PM10 and O3 I don't know whether your sensors in a watch can detect those |
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As I understand it the membrane is a bit like Goretex - liquid water molecules can't get through it because they're too big, but the smaller gas particles can. I think it's quite a common thing to do. Vibration shouldn't be needed as just natural diffusion will help - it wouldn't react quite as fast as a bare sensor but I'd still expect to get readings in a few minutes, which works well if you're just reading levels throughout the day. While particulate pollution is something it can't measure, I believe NOx is quite a good proxy for it (produced by diesels, power plants and so on) so might still be quite handy. I think with the BME688 you train the AI model online and then get a file which you could upload to the Bangle and use for classification |
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There's a correlation, but you can't rely on that sensor to see if it's safe to exercise outside 
NO2 low, but actually bad air quality |
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One thing I just realized would be awesome in the next gen bangle.js is a Fuel Gauge IC. Currently, the battery situation is a bit less than ideal for me, in the terms that what the device reports is not the actual percentage left. This makes it quite annoying when it says charged to 100, and I take it off and within the next 10 minutes, it's dropped to 85. A Fuel Gauge IC will estimate the exact State of Charge, and is what phones and other smartwatches do to keep the readings seeming accurate, much more so than the bangle.js. Adding in a dedicated Fuel Gauge IC chip will really help to make the use streamlined, and help it feel in line with mainstream watches elsewhere. |
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I believe the CST816D can do sleep/wakeup - it's just a software feature that the one in Bangle.js didn't support. |
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I think we have looked at it in the past, the schematics on the D version are missing the auto standby part. espruino/Espruino#2146 (comment) a bit irrelevant: on the discussion about the backlight not always turning on, to save power, I have the double accel tap wake the bangle, but not the backlight. |
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I personally think better power controls would be a massive upgrade. I can never tell when I need to charge my watch because the battery indicator is constantly changing. |
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I agree, it's often hard to get a good gauge on the charge state of the Bangle.js... Would it be possible in the BJS3 to also include a way to control how much voltage is coming in from power? This way we could do things like turning off charging at 80% or letting it slowly charge, for better battery life, etc. |
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We can't really control charge current, but I am looking at being able to allow software to disable the charge circuit so you can stop charging it to 100% if that's what you want. I think someone else mentioned on here a few days ago, but part of the reason for fluctuating battery is a)GPS and b) that we don't have separate battery curves for charge and discharge - so that may be something we can fix in software |
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For me I would want better power management. Right now battery life is all over the place and it is hard to tell when I actually need to charge my watch. It would be nice if the OS had a way of getting more detailed power info so that I could actually see where my battery life is going. Being to be able to limit power draw of apps and to have the watch switch to a low power mode when battery drops below a threshold would be a major benefit. I also would need the Banglejs 3 to have a GPS unit. Without GPS I wouldn't really have a use for the banglejs as I use it heavily for running, hiking and camping. |
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I think it's likely the GPS that is causing most of your power usage issues - it draws enough power that turning it on makes the difference between your Bangle.js battery lasting another 2 weeks, or 6 hours.
I believe there is an app for this already - https://banglejs.com/apps/?id=drained |
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What are you thinking for the case material plastic, metal, or something else |
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I think I mentioned above, but the bezel and strap holders (so most of what you see) is metal, but the sides and back are plastic to keep the weight down and let the radio signals through |
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Something that I'd really like to have would be a bit of FRAM for storing data across
Although at least the breakout boards sold by Adafruit are either kind of small and / or sort of expensive (8 KByte SPI, 32 KByte I2C, 256 KByte SPI, 512 KByte SPI). I guess storing some data across app loads could also work by sacrificing a bit of RAM though? Also definitely +1 for the IR led and BME688. Sad that the GPS needs to go, which was also one of the reasons I originally bought the Bangle.js 2, but getting the position from either a phone or perhaps something like the Seeed Sensecap T1000-E seems more reasonable if adding GPS is that expensive and space consuming. |
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FRAM is just insanely expensive per bite its the most expensive "modern" storage format allocating some ram makes the most sense for that kind of data |
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FRAM sounds cool, and I would love to see it used for that use case - But even for something like a 500KB chip, it costs $9.50.... |
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Good spot about the T1000-E - that looks like a really interesting bit of kit. I'm afraid it's unlikely I'll be able to put FRAM in, however the microcontroller I'm looking at using (nRF54L15) actually doesn't use flash but RRAM (Resistive Random Access Memory) which offers many more rewrite cycles as well as allowing re-writing of individual bytes, so that could offer what you're after. Having said that, being able to keep data between app loads/unloads is something that I could add to existing Bangles with a bit of work as a software update. In fact since we're starting to allow 'fast load' for a lot of apps now (eg launcher->messages) in those cases we're already doing that, avoiding any writes to flash. |
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RRAM sounds really neat to have 👍 Maybe I'm just a tad too paranoid about flash wear though 🙈 I mainly suggested the T1000-E because I've got some already for keeping in touch on hikes / vacation. |
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About the button layout - I'm planning 3 buttons on the right (up/select/down) and one on the left (back), however in my head, I'd assumed the left-hand button would be at the bottom, as that's where it felt like my thumb would be. However Pebble seem to put theirs in the top left (or in the middle in the latest round watch): 
What does everyone think? top left would be where we currently have the 'back' arrow when it's displayed so from that point of view it would make sense... But the location is easily changed in software, and from an ergonomic point of view, bottom left feels better. |
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I guess if we had 2+3 buttons you could have the back button at the bottom regardless of if you rotated the watch or not. Plus you get an extra "function" button I guess. But maybe that'll be one button too many? (wrt space/weight/aestetics/other components/etc) |
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Why not 2+2 so you can map the buttons in software? |
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I think the three on one side is to pebbleOS's benefit if you were to run that. On Espruino I'd imagine the buttons will be programmable like on B1 and B2 since that's how Espruino/Bangle.js works. |
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The idea of 1+3 was to match the Pebble, but also to fit with what we had for Bangle.js 1 (3 on the right) - up/select/down on the right and back on the left just seems very obvious - and as others have mentioned if you're wearing on your left wrist a top-left button could be a bit awkward, so it might be a bit of a pain to use it. A 2+2 would be very nice from the point of view of the watch being easily swappable from hand to hand though!
Yes, this would be nice, but looking at the current plan for the watch (using PCB-mount tactile buttons) adding an extra button really eats into the available area. If it were a choice of having a speaker or a 5th button I wonder what people would want - my feeling is probably the speaker? |
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Yeah, in competition with other features I personally think 1+3 buttons is plenty. |
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Last night I remembered the existence of the Healthy Pi Move. Maybe inspiration can be taken from the health-related sensors that uses? |
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That looks really cool! I think what gordon said though to other asks is that there'll be a hr sensor and blood oxygen, but not sure on anything else. I would want wrist temp the most, if we were able to add other sensors, but it might not happen. |
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Yes, that watch looks really neat. I think we'll be able to do HR, blood oxygen, maybe pressure, the IMU, and gas sensing (which the Healthy Pi doesn't offer) but I believe body temp is going to be too hard to offer as it'll require an opening to be in the watch base for the metallic plate. Also when I realised that for the ECG to work you actually had to touch the bezel of the watch, I went off the idea of including it. If you're still the current PPG sensor works pretty well, and if you're exercising you're not going to want to touch the bezel of your watch - so really it feels a bit redundant given all the extra effort and cost of including it. |
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Doesn't the ppg sensor that the bjs2 has also support spo2 measurements, or is it a different sensor/led combo? |
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Just out of curiosity, are you planning on adding a "waterproof mode", similar to how Samsung and Apple Watches achieve waterproofed watches, where the device can seal/expel water when triggered to? |
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As far as I can tell, all that waterproof mode does is to disable the touchscreen and get the speaker to eject any water that might have got in it? There's no extra sealing going on. I'm afraid I'm still not going to be saying you can go swimming in this new watch. While the plan is to make it properly 3ATM (30M) waterproof, that's still more in the 'accidental immersion' category - not swimming (see Garmin's definitions at https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating-definitions/). I'd go as far as to say that even though Garmin mentions showers, that's not something that folks should do regularly either, because of the hot water and detergents. |
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That sounds reasonable - as we're having a speaker, we will also then want to use the eject water feature and create something similar, right? |
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Is there a specific reason why the screen is going to be circle? Is it just other people's preferences? I feel like coding would be easier if it's a square. |
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Touch will be added separately Gordon said. |
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nvm |
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https://www.youritech.com/products/lpm012m387f-jdi-1-2-inch-round-lcd-sunlight-readable-240x240-reflective-tft-circular-display.html i think its this |
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that's too high resolution And it's not a memory LCD This was the specs Gordon gave
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It's an Innolux ZJ012BD-01A - but the LPM012M387F linked above is basically the same thing. Personally I think the round screens look a bit higher end - and yes, it was a choice of either using basically the same screen, or this round (but higher resolution, better colour) display. The resolution/size is such that the watch will still be able to display existing Bangle.js 2 apps in the middle of the screen and have them work basically as-normal. IMO the round screen really doesn't make app developers life much harder - things like menus (or the layout library) are all handled by the watch, or even if you're manually specifying positions I don't see it's that much different. Realistically I see the round watch face giving the opportunity for widgets and titles to be used at the top+bottom of the screen without impacting much on the space available to the app, which I think will be a big bonus |
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I'm curious about the screen. I was looking at the new pebble 2 kickstarter screen looks very smooth. what will the refresh rate be? Do we have the a specific screen yet or just the idea? |
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it looks on par with the refresh rate the bangle has on the scrolling list. I think the screen is already paid for, it is a done deal. |
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Yes, it should be similar to the current Bangle. I think I worked out it was around 25fps but there's a possibility of sending only dithered 3 bit color when updating quickly and moving to 6 bit when stationary, which should allow us to push that a bit further. |
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Perhaps we could keep that as a setting like "performance coloring"... |
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What have we settled on for vibration motor? Are we using something like a linear actuator, or keeping the existing motor? I personally lean toward the actuator, because it's quick, responsive, and can get complex patterns/rhythms for alarms... |
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I found one potential lra, which is what is in Galaxy watches:here |
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I think the force is around 1 gram, will that be enough? |
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I have no idea, but given they say it's ideal for smart rings, it may not be enough. Based on the pricing, I'd imagine even if that could be fitted, using that and the driver IC instead of a normal motor will add at least another £7 to the watch's price though. It may be something you think it worth it, but I'm not convinced most customers will think so? |
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After some further research, smartphones have a vibration strength of ~1.5-2, so I think it'll be well fitted for our use case. Ultimately it's your decision to make, but i have seen several others ask for better haptics too, whether it's a stronger motor, or a lra. Is it possible for you to get one as a test, and use it to see if it's strong enough? |
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I'm not sure I've heard many people other than you ask for an LRA, but yes, others have been asking for a stronger motors. However I think that will happen anyway. Bangle.js 2 put the vibration motor in the middle and attached it to the battery, but we'll be physically attaching the vibration motor to the watch case which will help a lot. |
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I just stumbled upon the Bangle.js device. Williams, do you have a general timeline for design, production, and release of the third version? |
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I'm hoping to have the first batch shipped out by the end of this year, but I'm not sure if we'll make that or not. There's quite a lot of development work I'll have to do to get that to happen |
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Posted at 2022-03-24 by Micha_home
[not really, but I oftenthink about it]
If the watch were a smartphone, you should by now announce the next iteration of Bangle :)
I haven't really followed the Kickstarters and I'm pretty new to owning a Bangle2 myself, so I have no Idea how the whole philosophy for introding new watches is.
I there a place for feedback? Is a 3rd version planned? (soon, next year, in 3 years, maybe eventually, never)
In my opinion, the Bangle2 is already a masterpiece and almost perfect:
My battery lasts a little longer than a week of standard usage (I can charge it every Sunday night)
The watch is super lightweight.
Having standard-straps is a plus.
It's always on. Readable in sunlight. Color display.
Enough memory for my needs. Enough speed for my needs. Enough water resistance for my needs.
There is just one thing that I miss: having the 3+1 Buttons that I had with my pebble. Man, i would KILL for a few buttons :)
It's not that THIS touch screen is horrible to use... In my experience ALL watch touch screens are hard to use. Controlling music on the bike: With buttons always easy. Didn't even have to look at the display.
Buttons always give that tactile feedback that you hit exactly what you wanted to hit :)
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