Question: Purpose of libadapta

[SantiBurgos1089]

First of all, I don't intend to create a war, to cause controversy, to insult some others or other actions related, so please allow me to expose my personal POV but don't take it out of context. Also, English is not my native language so please excuse me if something I said doesn't sound the way it is.

I have been checking the issues and comments of libadapta as a whole, and it seems that maybe we either misunderstood the idea behind it, or everyone is taking things a little bit personal pretending the library to become something that "I want it that way" or "it must have GTK3 things included yes or yes"; when probably we haven't understood what's involved and how difficult things might be to implement (if possible), but also, those who want to understand what's possible and what isn't so we know what is the choice we need to do, if that is the issue, in case we want to develop apps using this "new" libadapta.

Again, the idea is not to cause controversy, but we need to understand that, whether we like it or not, GTK3 will be deprecated the same way that GTK2 has been, and we need options if we want to go GTK4 and beyond, and/or change toolkits depending of our knowledge and what we want to invest and understand, without going into war or something, once we make the choice.

To give some examples, and understanding that libadapta is kind of libadwaita + added things:

1. I created this little app in GTK3 (bad code writing maybe, but it works for me, still learning that part), if I want it to port it to use libadapta/Xapp: Am I bound to use and deal with the limitations that libadwaita/GTK4 has in regard of controls? Can I mix Xapp with libadapta eventually when/if the library has some controls that were lost in the GTK3 to GTK4/libadwaita migration (for example: menubars)? Does some controls are available on GTK4 onwards as long as GTK/GNOME allows it? Or do I need to realize that if either GTK4/libadwaita has/doesn't have something, then I won't see it on libadapta either?

2. This is a Nemo window, I have the same questions as previous point in case I (or some other project) have a GTK3 app and want to achieve the same level of visuals depending of what might be the future idea, even if some/all code behind it changes, or will it have a different look as Files (using this app as comparison, you can imagine others as well like Xreader and Evince/Papers)

3. If I create some PR of a Mint/Xapp app in which I want to use it/change it to libadapta, the same questions as previous 2 points plus if it might not create some friction in case a developer say something like "no thanks, we don't want that", or they might accept it, if they consider it as good

(For the sake of my examples, lets pretend that menubars doesn't exist on either GTK4/libadwaita. I haven't checked the entire documentation so I might be wrong)

I(We) do need to understand what's available or not, and maybe the example I gave on menubars might not be correct since probably menubars still exists on GTK4, but in case I develop/migrate an app and my current GTK3 app has menubars, my possible/future GTK4/libadapta app will never have menubars and Mint team might/might not add menubars. Whatever happens it would be good to know about it so I can make a racional decision on it (along with the limitations), instead of just ranting because "it is GNOME only" or related. At least personally I don't mind those changes, but I have seen that probably many others gave up eventually not because they hate GNOME or related, but because the changes done to GTK4/libadwaita means a lot of effort that are unable to keep up with the pace and changes and grew tired of that plus not having enough manpower to do it (the same reason of why Mint decided to only use LTS instead of the 6 month releases: they don't hate Ubuntu but they'd rather rebase on new things when available and adding new things, if possible, on LTS and then migrate it to others)

[JosephMcc]

First you need to understand what libadwaita is. It's really just a library of prebuilt widgets, built on Gtk4, that allow more easily creating apps that fit the GNOME styling and HIG. libadapta is simply a fork that allows theming those elements with the users theme more easily. It's not some entirely new UI toolkit.

I have been checking the issues and comments of libadapta as a whole, and it seems that maybe we either misunderstood the idea behind it, or everyone is taking things a little bit personal pretending the library to become something that "I want it that way" or "it must have GTK3 things included

Looking at the issue I'd say it's both. People are asking for things like global menu bars, which are more desktop centric and out of scope, or hacks like gtk-nocsd to be implemented. Those are not going to happen.

Reading the whole second half of your post, it seems like you want the future predicted. No one can do that. A new, major version, release of a toolkit is pretty much always going to bring changes. Your menubar example is terrible because you can create that in Gtk4. Is it different than in Gtk3? Yes. Choose what works best for you now because no one can tell you what's going to happen. If you don't want anything specific from libadwaita/libadapta, then don't use it. If it was me writing something new, I'd certainly go with Gtk4. For myself I'd probably also go with libadwaita just because I tend to like the styling and how easy it is to use many of the prebuilt layouts.

[SantiBurgos1089]

First you need to understand what libadwaita is. It's really just a library of prebuilt widgets, built on Gtk4, that allow more easily creating apps that fit the GNOME styling and HIG. libadapta is simply a fork that allows theming those elements with the users theme more easily. It's not some entirely new UI toolkit.

You are right, I need to understand what it is and what isn't, which is the main reason of my post. I'm still new to this Gtk/Python thing and I haven't had the time to test (it would be good to know if libadapta can be installed on LMDE 6 or if definitely I need to wait until LMDE 7, but that is another topic).

I have been checking the issues and comments of libadapta as a whole, and it seems that maybe we either misunderstood the idea behind it, or everyone is taking things a little bit personal pretending the library to become something that "I want it that way" or "it must have GTK3 things included

Looking at the issue I'd say it's both. People are asking for things like global menu bars, which are more desktop centric and out of scope, or hacks like gtk-nocsd to be implemented. Those are not going to happen.

I get you and, once again, you are right, at least for myself I need to know what is and what I can do with libadapta/libadwaita without entering into something like "why you don't implement this?" kind of fight (or that's what I have been trying to do in this discussion), changes exists, as in anything around us, and sometimes we need to understand that that's the way it is in almost everything around us. I may or may not agree, but that is my particular POV and I can't force it into anyone (I know that should be part of a basic education, but once again, that is another topic)

Reading the whole second half of your post, it seems like you want the future predicted. No one can do that. A new, major version, release of a toolkit is pretty much always going to bring changes. Your menubar example is terrible because you can create that in Gtk4. Is it different than in Gtk3? Yes.

Third time you are right, I chose a really bad example but I haven't exactly checked what does the limitations/possibilities of Gtk4/libadwaita to precisely pick something to post about, which is why I post some screenshots of apps to kind-of explain myself.

Other than that, yeah, maybe that's how it sounds (about wanting the future predicted), but that's not my intention and I apologize if I made it sound that way.

Choose what works best for you now because no one can tell you what's going to happen. If you don't want anything specific from libadwaita/libadapta, then don't use it.

I'll keep that in mind and thanks for the advice.

If it was me writing something new, I'd certainly go with Gtk4. For myself I'd probably also go with libadwaita just because I tend to like the styling and how easy it is to use many of the prebuilt layouts.

Probably and eventually I might need to go with Gtk4 as well, and, definitely will give it a try to libadapta/libadwaita; as I also mention, I don't mind those changes but it would be great to know where to look information about it; Gtk3/Python documentation has been hard to find and understand, and the first app I posted on the comments has been made part me part ChatGPT, it works fine and has allowed me to replicate something that exists only on Windows but definitely needs a lot of improvement and I wouldn't mind a place to post, to ask and to objectively receive feedback and corrections to my mistakes as well as guidance to continue improving and making things better than yesterday.

[SantiBurgos1089]

Taking part of the question out of the initial response, do you know where can I find some information about Gtk4/Python that might be "easy" to understand?

Also, may I ask if there is any place to post, to ask, to receive feedback and corrections to improve? If there is a possibility on understanding what is going on and how, maybe that would help (me and everyone else) with options