Decreasing research effectiveness (random chance of failure)

[kc7zzv]

I am very interested in EE3, but I would really like to tweak the balance so that researching takes more "samples".

The idea is that the config would have an option that lets the server owner configure the chances of research working. If the research "fails" then the item is destroyed and you don't get the research.

The reason I'd like this is to allow for more interesting strategic choices. Say that your server has the chance set to 20%. You've managed to collect a ghast tear. Do you spend it in a recipe, or do you risk your single tear in hopes of being able to make more?

Mostly, I want the ability to force players to risk losing an item rather than have EE3 research always be the best choice when you get something rare.

[pahimar]

I like this idea, I want to add in some more variability to researching items. Right now its just "click and wait." Perhaps there are more fun mechanics that can be done, and tuning points where pack devs can tweak it to their needs

[grydian]

I love this idea :)

[Lordmau5]

Some sort-of minigame sure would be cool.
The question is, what would it be?
As in, any raw ideas that would fit

[HadesDurin]

Remember: when you research an item it gets used up already, which is already an expensive thing. Including the blacklist of items, i think thats enough for someone like me, who didn't use EE3 at an extreme state like others did.
I think if you want to get it harder to do this and that inside EE3, maybe implementing modes is a thing.
Easy mode for people like me
normale mode with some failure (maybe 60% success)
hard mode with only 25% success
that way its suited all players and server owners as they can use this mod the way they want to play minecraft.

EDIT: another solution is a configureable loss in swoping EMC around.
like get 90% of the EMC value counted from an item.
for example: put 10 diamonds in and only get 9 diamonds out

[Lordmau5]

It should be a config-option, I am 100% sure we can all agree on that.

But having a default of "You need to finish a certain minigame" would be better and more challenging (think of the Thaumcraft research minigame - not a 1:1 copy, but just an idea of a minigame :))

[MercuriusXeno]

Long post was long, I'm going to summarize:

It would be rad if attempting to transmute materials into an item was what caused you to learn to transmute into an item. Studying the item, by destruction probably, in a research table could give you a base % success rate of actually producing that item in a transmutation circle: a success rate that is flexible and at a server's discretion. At that point, you may improve your knowledge by CONTINUING TO SMASH THINGS, but also you could learn by simply attempting to produce that material at a less-than-optimal rate of success. The rate at which you learn by trial-and-error should also be at the server's discretion.

What do you guys think?

[kolatra]

I like the idea, it makes more sense than "I know the item exists, so I automatically know everything that is involved in creating it through transmuation."

[MercuriusXeno]

For added effect, it would be interesting if you received some other sub-optimal result instead of what you were trying to accomplish (thinking rebound or flawed results), but those are optional flourishes.

[kolatra]

Flawed results like a pickaxe that has some damage on it for example rather than full durability?

[MercuriusXeno]

Flawed result like coal instead of diamonds, even. Possibly improving your understanding of coal by 1% in the process. The important thing here is not to limit your imagination. It's EE3, let's go nuts.

[kolatra]

There could possibly even be a chance of receiving nothing, but losing some material, potentially improving your understanding. The chance of loss would be higher at lower levels of understanding.

[Divineaspect]

Might want to add an experience reward from failure, and a potential cost for success.

Howabout Understanding related materials. You understand cobblestone at 75% so you have 1/3rd (or whatever) of that as a bonus to making items which are made with/from cobblestone automatically. If it's not a PITA that could logically decay through stages, so 1/9th of that at Stone or Furnaces. This would add a sort of natural philosophy about studying basic items early on for their cumulative bonuses, but should probably be available before practical transmutation.

[MercuriusXeno]

I'm not sure I follow that first line. Do you mean minecraft experience, or alchemy experience? In this case when I refer to one or the other I consider them mutually exclusive. I don't like minecraft experience. I think it's bad and should not be used by EE3, or its use should be kept to a minimum.

Your other idea I think is really rad though, if I'm following. I might benefit from seeing it worded a bit differently.