setuptools removal

[hgeorgescu]

Documentation

Subject: Feedback on the Removal of setuptools in Python 3.13

Dear Python Development Team,

I would like to express my concern regarding the recent decision to remove setuptools from the standard Python installation in version 3.13.

While I understand the motivations behind this change, such as reducing installation size and promoting a more modular ecosystem, I believe this decision does not adequately consider the impact on users, particularly those using integrated development environments (IDEs) that rely on setuptools.

The lack of clear communication about this change has led to confusion for many users who expect essential tools to be included with Python. It’s important for the community to have efficient and transparent channels for feedback, especially concerning significant changes that affect user experience.

I urge the development team to reconsider the approach to including critical tools like setuptools in the Python distribution or to provide clearer guidance for users on how to manage their installations.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Best regards,
HGeo

[picnixz]

AFAIK, setuptools is an independent project that was bundled in Python because of ensurepip and was automatically installed by venv. However, this was already removed in Python 3.12, along with distutils. The workaround is quite simple as users can directly install setuptools using pip. Am I missing something?

If not, I'm considering closing this one as wont fix as we will likely not come back on that decision.

[AA-Turner]

Bénédikt is correct. You may find the venv documentation or the Python Packaging User Guide (PyPUG) useful as further information.

As an aside, the right place for questions such as this is Discourse.

$ . venv/bin/activate
(venv) $ python -m pip install setuptools

A

[hgeorgescu]

As many people use different IDEs, of which certain can't use newer versions of Python without having setuptools installed, specifying this while installing is mandatory honesty.

…

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025, 17:16 Adam Turner, ***@***.***> wrote: Bénédikt is correct. You may find the venv <https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html> documentation or the Python Packaging User Guide (PyPUG) <https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/> useful as further information. As an aside, the right place for questions such as this is Discourse <https://discuss.python.org>. $ . venv/bin/activate (venv) $ python -m pip install setuptools A — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#128839 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMSYETOIFYZVZBLJCGHMEXD2KUZ5JAVCNFSM6AAAAABVFG32XCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDKOJQGQYDIMRXGA> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[picnixz]

As many people use different IDEs, of which certain can't use newer versions of Python without having setuptools installed, specifying this while installing is mandatory honesty.

This is an issue that should be solved by IDEs, not by the Python language itself.

[hgeorgescu]

Is it humiliating for Python distributors to inform users about this issue?

…

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 at 17:27, Bénédikt Tran ***@***.***> wrote: As many people use different IDEs, of which certain can't use newer versions of Python without having setuptools installed, specifying this while installing is mandatory honesty. This is an issue that should be solved by IDEs, not by the Python language itself. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#128839 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMSYETPQDHSV4THDI7YXBEL2KU3GVAVCNFSM6AAAAABVFG32XCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDKOJQGQ2TMNZYHE> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[picnixz]

Is it humiliating for Python distributors to inform users about this issue?

Not at all but this was announced and decided through the regular process (see 3.12 changelog). I would recommend opening an issue on the IDEs bug tracker. I know that PyCharm sometimes struggles with setuptools but I don't think Python can do something for that.