Agenda for 2025-04-30 CG meeting (#729)

* Agenda for 2025-04-30 CG meeting

Signed-off-by: Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]>

* Solid CG meeting notes 2025-04-30

Signed-off-by: Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]>

* Apply suggestions from code review

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <[email protected]>

---------

Signed-off-by: Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]>
Co-authored-by: elf Pavlik <[email protected]>
Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <[email protected]>

Author: 3 people

meetings/2025-04-30.md

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+# W3C Solid Community Group: Weekly
+
+* Date: 2025-04-30T14:00:00Z
+* Call: https://meet.jit.si/solid-cg
+* Chat: https://matrix.to/#/#solid_specification:gitter.im
+* Repository: https://github.com/solid/specification
+
+## Present
+* Hadrian Zbarcea
+* [elf Pavlik](https://elf-pavlik.hackers4peace.net)
+* Alain Bourgeois
+* [Marc Haddle] [email protected]
+* John Kirkwood
+* [TallTed // Ted Thibodeau Jr](https://github.com/TallTed/) (he/him) ([OpenLink Software](https://www.openlinksw.com/)) (late arrival)
+
+---
+
+## Announcements
+
+### Meeting Guidelines
+* [W3C Solid Community Group Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar).
+* [W3C Solid Community Group Meeting Guidelines](https://github.com/w3c-cg/solid/blob/main/meetings/README.md).
+* No audio or video recording, or automated transcripts without consent. Meetings are transcribed and made public. If consent is withheld by anyone, recording/retention must not occur.
+* Join queue to talk.
+* Topics can be proposed at the bottom of the agenda to be discussed as time allows. Make it known if a topic is urgent or cannot be postponed.
+
+### Participation and Code of Conduct
+* [Join the W3C Solid Community Group](https://www.w3.org/community/solid/join), [W3C Account Request](http://www.w3.org/accounts/request), [W3C Community Contributor License Agreement](https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/)
+* [Solid Code of Conduct](https://github.com/solid/process/blob/main/code-of-conduct.md), [Positive Work Environment at W3C: Code of Conduct](https://www.w3.org/policies/code-of-conduct/)
+* Operating principle for effective participation is to allow access across disabilities, across country borders, and across time. Feedback on tooling and meeting timing is welcome.
+* If this is your first time, welcome! please introduce yourself.
+
+### Scribes
+* elf Pavlik
+
+---
+
+## Topics
+
+### Code of Conduct followup
+
+https://github.com/solid/specification/issues/724#issuecomment-2830836650
+
+* RG: I shall record my statement. As a free person, I believe I have the right to choose the method or platform by which to discuss technical issues with the community, the same as anyone else. For this reason, I find the language used by the chair in closing issue #724 to be completely a misuse of their authority. The chairs have demonstrated reluctance to understand and apply the specific provisions as laid out in documents such as the [PWE W3C CoC](https://www.w3.org/policies/code-of-conduct) as [publicly advised](https://matrix.to/#/!QxZtVBYQfMeMTnespj:gitter.im/$vqBKTkAsYprBae5R0z2rrjM3r6HeucADaqUtdXfeRO4) by the previous Solid CG chair. 
+* RG: This is the Solid project, a project meant to create freedoms for the internet end user. And because charity begins at home, I shall be politely declining "the invitation" to surrender my freedom and agency (by opening a GitHub Discussion in lieu of an Issue) to the tyranny of an arbitrary rule made up by the chairs on the back of a frivilous complaint without due process. I shall not be participating in these meetings until such time as the chairs stop engaging in the [fallacy of balance](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Balance_fallacy). I reserve my right for further action.
+* HZ: We had conversation with W3C. I don't think it is as bad as it sounds. There is an aspect of recurring behavior from a few members of the community.
+* eP: We are still working on it. We'll try to take measures to minimise unnecessary tensions.
+* HZ: Solid CG spreads across a few organizations and uses various channels. Some channels are not directly related to W3C and the spec. It is not clear who has authority over those channels.
+* AB: I don't think all this discussion should be public. Instead direct and private, only report publicly when someone gets banned or their access is revoked.
+* HZ: I agree, but there was also a request for transparency, so we may share more details. Aim to discuss technical issues in public, and personal issues in private.
+* AB: I think this is mostly work that should be done by ODI.
+* eP: We'll ask W3C what could be made public and what should stay private.
+* eP: There is CG, WG, ODI, Practitioners; we want to respect each group's autonomy while coordinating. We may need to clarify what falls under whose responsibility.
+
+### Solid Practitioners election — co-chairs and ODI AC rep
+
+https://github.com/solid-contrib/practitioners/issues/16#issuecomment-2829339384
+
+* eP: All 3 candidates — Jeff, Michal, and Rahul — became co-chairs of Practitioners. Jeff will represent Practitioners at ODI AC.
+
+
+### Data domains: contacts and calendars
+
+https://github.com/solid/contacts
+https://github.com/solid/webid-profile
+https://github.com/solid-contrib/practitioners/discussions/10#discussioncomment-9014767
+
+* eP: suggestion to prioritize work, including aligning contact information in address book and discoverabel from person/organization WebID
+* HZ: ... echanging keys over QR codes. It is related to at least contacts and WebID profiles. Would you like a demo.
+* eP: there is also possibility to ask practicioners if they would like to see a demo
+* HZ: It is like a Vcard — you can have whatever you want in that card. We talked about having support for Solid storage. It would be interesting to talk to Sebastien from ActivityPods. It would be good if we have multiple implementations supporting Solid.
+* eP: of the main focuses of the CG should be data domains. They are more vertical domains, like ERP, but there are horizontal domains, like contacts and calendars. 
+* ... There are many details, events, contacts. There is a small number of shapes. We could try to prototype. There was a project during the mini-hackathon Jackson organized. There are use cases for indexing, pagination, etc.
+* HZ: It is a complex subject; the problem is adoption. In relation of performance, Solid is not build for it, and it shouldn't be. People try to get benefits from Solid which they are never going to get. Even with databases, people came up with technologies for indexing. I don't think those should be part of Solid. I don't think we will be successful if we try to have Solid deal with it. 
+* MH: I'm using Solid myself. I see two separate versions of Solid emerging. One is using Linked Data; the other, taking possession of data objects and keeping them in your store. I think you don't have control of data if you don't have custody of it. I see separation of one camp who links the data, and another that stores that data.
+* HZ: I heard a shocking statement at IIW (Internet Identity Workshop). Mostly people from EU and NA, some also from Asia. People were saying that we are too early with Solid. It was suggested that we need 3 or 4 things for self soveriegn systems. If you can't prove your identity, due to the issuer of identity blocking you, it's game over.
+* ...: The 2rd component is storage. If they cut access to your data, you lose it. I need to prove my identity and own my data. The 3rd component is messaging. If I can't communicate, it is again game over.
+* ...: There is also algorithm running. There are big limitations on what I can do. The battles in the identity space are not over. There are sophisticated discussions in the identity space. Whatever solution is adopted for identity, if storage and messaging don't support it, they will not be successful.
+* ...: In our work we need to be able to support those identity systems.
+* eP: I joined one of the EU groups. I have the impression that if we don't engage with these groups, it will not help. We should engage more, cross-pollenate, and present reports on what happens in other groups.
+* ... Solid is more like generic servers, smart clients. The algorithms that can run on your data; that logic belongs to the client.
+* HZ: Personally, I disapprove. From my experience, this doesn't scale. I had this conversation with Tim a couple of times. In my experience, a lot of it would need to go into infrastructure. I tried to have this conversation in LWS. You will never have performance if you put a burden on the client, especially if it runs in the browser. 
+* eP: (???)
+* HZ: For some reason we don't show examples of that.
+* MH: When I socialize Solid, people say there are not many examples out there. 3 reasons to do something are: make money, save money, and stay out of trouble. These are how things get real world traction and get adopted. I would like to see more real world use cases. 
+* ...: Solid is the only framwork that allows the user to have custody of their data. In certain industry domains, having this control is significant. In health care, research, and drug discovery, we try to give patients parity with payers and providers. Currently there is an imbalance where patients have no power. We want to solve that.
+* HZ: It is not only payers and providers. HC providers are bound by what the administration imposes upon them. If you are a provider that moves between hospitals, you may need to learn a new (???).
+* MH: Currently, the state of patient data is scattered over all different platforms. If you want to unify it, where do you put it? Often there are a big pieces of data which don't move easily.
+* HZ: How do you see those examples of how Solid works?
+* MH: Providers must honor patient requests for data. They need to use a harmonized format of data, e.g., FIHR. There are also imaging and video standards (???)
+* ...: ...
+* HZ: Do you know of any work group which tries to align FIHR with Solid?
+* eP: Eric, WG co-chair, worked with it AFAIK
+* HZ: I believe he needed to implement his own Solid Server.