Assertions Discussion #106
Replies: 24 comments 34 replies
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How WCAG 3 Define Procedures?From WCAG 3: A procedure may be limited to guidance:
How should WCAG 3 define the procedures that Assertions reference? |
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On 7/23 call, I stated that I believe that while that may be true, the outcome may be able to be assessed. For example, if someone has an assertion for a process their team uses to arrive at clear wording, and their resulting headings are wordy and poor, one cannot verify the team has done their process, but can point to the outcome to show that either they did not carry it out, or their process sucks. |
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On call 7/23, I shared my opinion that the current definition of assertions could include activities frequently included in U.S. legal settlement agreements such as consultation with advocacy organizations. From that perspective, some assertions have some ability to be verified. |
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Wasn't there talk early on about maybe adding links to documentation in metadata about assertions? I vaguely remember the idea being brought up and thought it was an interesting idea. |
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Key to the concept of assertions is that the ONLY thing to test is that an assertion was made. There is no requirement for a testable outcome (or we should be using the outcome as the measure - not the assertion). Also note that we can give points for an assertion for higher levels -- but unless we can confirm that companies can make assertions (in the 2000-2008 period we were told that many large companies were not allowed to by legal departments) we would not be able to include assertions as requirements for conformance at the basic (or any regulated) level. A key part of our architecture then has to be structuring the guidelines so that testable / requireable provisions are right along with recomendations for doing non-testable but just as important things. |
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Maybe an example which might be point for call today:
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Summary of Questions from Assertions Template Exercise
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Regrets on the call tomorrow -- conflict came up
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Should assertions be available to meet a conformance level?Opinions varied widely during the discussion. Some members felt they should be visible but never used to meet conformance at any level, some members felt that they the option to use assertions to meet any conformance level should be left open, and some felt that assertions should not be used at the most basic level of conformance but should be available as one way to meet higher levels of conformance. Please reply to this thread with your position and reasoning or react to responses with thumbs up or thumbs down. |
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Do assertions need to be made in a place that is viewable by people who have access to the system or only in a conformance statement that is provided by the author?The group generally agreed that assertions should be documented as part of conformance statements but supporting documentation should not be required required to make a conformance statement. Please reply to this thread with your position and reasoning or react to responses with thumbs up or thumbs down. |
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@alastc thanks for the comment. If you can't validate something that is part of conformance then I would say the weight or applicability of assertions compared to what you did test and validate in actual testing would be worthwhile to include in a conformance statement. If you can't validate an assertion but you can make one, that does not seem fair to end user or a firm trying to make a procurement decision. For me that gets in to the gatekeeper and the gate analogy and if we are excluding from WCAG 3 or including in a phase for baseline or requirements, that is something to be considered for sure. |
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Assertions by their definition cannot be "evaluated" or "validated",. The assertion is just that. An assertion. the only thing to test is whether it was asserted. And if you have it in your hand - you have proof of it. Anything beyond that is not testable. You can only rely on ISO 9000 and companies' integrity. The only test of an assertion is that it was made. it is not otherwise objective or testable |
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Additional conversation on assertions is in smart requirements comments. |
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@GreggVan @rachaelbradley @alastc My recommendation would be to clearly articulate the differences of evaluated, validation vs. use of word testing per the assertion topic discussed here and on discussion 306. We also should be providing clarity on requirements vs. assertions in terms of conformance. On #306 and the bulleted item: - Include assertions for processes that don’t lead to repeatable results but have been shown to improve accessibility [Define by Date & Example Date]. My request is that we have more data / use cases to showcase examples to users of WCAG3 on how these assertions can be included for processes that don't lead to repeatable results but have been show to improve accessibility. If something is shown to improve accessibility , isn't that something that is repeatable per data you are tracking over time that shows net positive from the baseline? It would helpful to have more real-world examples vs. the theoretical on this on how it actually impacts end users of WCAG3 and the end user of tech that would apply WCAG3's methodology. If those data points live within W3C and WCAG3 material , I can review off of this thread and add more to my comments here. |
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3 June 2025 AG Meeting DiscussionChairs put together a presentation to prompt conversation on the following questions:
Use this comment for post-meeting conversation. |
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Per the conversation on 6/3/25 in IRC:
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All of these questions depend on the final definition of an assertion. There is a lot of confusion between an ASSERTION and a REQUIREMENT -- with people talking about ASSERTIONS as if they were REQUIREMENTS. Per the original proposition -- the making of the assertion fulfils the "Assertion" requirement. If anything beyond that was testable - then THAT would be the requirement - not the assertion. I think it is useful to demonstrate with examples the different between an ASSERTION and a REQUIREMENT
If you WANT to test or require documentation or verification or **impact testing -- then one would not use an assertion - one would just use a simple requitement for whichever of these one wants.
OR
OR
We keep trying to attach testing to an assertion that it does not include. And if you do require more than a simple assertion - then it is no longer an assertion but a requirement.
You don't. As soon as the assertion is made - the Assertion terms are met. If you want to require internal verification then it can be a requirement - (not an assertion) with a conformance claim that it was done and internal verification exists.
If you require this - then it becomes a requirement.
Confusing question. At this time the only thing we have are supplemental requirements, so there is no such thing as a "supplementaL" If you mean foundational or supplemental - I would suggest they only be supplemental for the long list of reasons posted elsewhere.
to get people to be aware of things they should do that are not testable and to have them get some type of credit for asserting they did something like that. (I say something like that - because if you could say exactly what THAT was - then it would be testable)
Sure
Even if not required - the VPAT or ACR could be updated to allow the assertions to be included.
WCAG would need to define the possible assertions in advance to keep them from becoming trivial - if anyone could make up anything as an assertion and then get credit for it.
Someplace public. In a conformance claim for sure. Perhaps other places.
That is a good place. But to conform they would only have to make the assertion. No other test is needed or appropriate.
Another good place. In fact anyplace they list their claims - or even places they don't make claims other than asserstions. not required though.
Another good place. not required.
Another good place. not required.
Good idea. not required.
No - I think assertions need to go through the same stages of maturity as all other provisions. |
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Thanks @alastc and @GreggVan . My vote would be to have an explainer or FAQ doc that covers your answers which are included in the discussion here and relate to the slides in the Google Slides presentations. My understanding is the slide deck was from July 2024 (when this discussion thread was formed) and the presentation last week Assertions, June 2025 along with the discussion is ongoing here in GitHub. If we are to use one as the basis to inform the other documents , please let me know. For example, if Assertions June 2025 slides will be updated with these questions and answers to have it all in a related presentation, that is fine with me. My quote related to internal verification and testing verification came from your slide titled Examples from subgroup work (2 of 2) on the Assertions June 2025 slide deck. The word testing was specifically used thus you'd be testing internally to verify something yet an outside source would not be able to test if that information is not public. If we are to use these to "move accessibility forward" but don't have enough data for someone to validate a statement that states "we have this style guide and we use it or "we've tested for privacy concerns" , to me it comes off as a marketing aspect of "we do the right thing" and "assert". If we were to come from a perspective of whether it is a valid stance to promote accessibility in that way I guess is open for the discussion and why this issue or discussion is ongoing. It appears it depends on whether a company made an assertion but couldn't verify it publicly but only internally. I'll leave it to the greater group to add to the discussion or include in WCAG 3 as we move forward. I just wanted to provide some insight from my perspectives of the terms used in our conversations to date. |
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Good discussion. RE: ASSERTIONS AND CONFORMANCE
RE: WILL THERE BE FORMAL WCAG DEFINED ASSERTIONS -- OR ARE THEY OPEN TO ANYONE TO CREATE THEM a) If assertions are NOT defined by WCAG-WG then anyone can make them up. b) if anyone can make them up -- then we cannot use them on conformance since
c) we could have Official and Unofficial Assertions
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Has there been any other place where the mix of assertions and supplemental requirements has been discussed in more detail? (I just looked at the discussion threads and saw no obvious contender.) I still think the idea of scoring by making assertions or a "mix of supplemental" somewhat dubious. The CSUN slide deck indicates that the choice of additional supplemental requirements needed to reach the base level may depend on the subject nature of the content (like "health"). Does that indicate an additional chunk of requirements that would need to be met in total to achieve conformance, for that sector? Or is is really "pick and choose"? (and throw some assertions in?) I personally would prefer to see meeting all foundational requirements equate "bronze". |
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The pull request seems to say the following which I think are problematic
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if assertions are limited to process (which seems to be our current path) then it might be good replace "process assertions" everywhere instead of "assertions". It will lead to much quicker understanding and uptake of the new term and reduce misunderstanding -- since most people will not look up the definition and just try to think / talk about making assertions about content. I think it will get us where we want to go with this new term/concept faster and with less misunderstanding |
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This makes sense to me. Do we have examples of assertions that are not, at their core, processes? |
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We will be discussing Assertions for the next few weeks in the working group meetings.
Reference: Assertions Slide Deck
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