Move abit slower and break less stuff. #8708
Replies: 7 comments 6 replies
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Clicking any of the search results doesn't even load anything. I came here looking for a way to disable it and restore basic browser functionality. It feels like a game of attrition, waiting for Zen to fix something only for them to break something else when they finally do. I only put up with Zen cos the workspaces feature is so useful, but if another Firefox fork adds them, then I'll uninstall Zen in an instant. |
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I agree. My custom browser layout is often reset by updates, features I really liked are removed and changes in Zen's behaviour frequently break my workflow. It feels like Zen make additions and changes just to undo them a couple of weeks/months later. For example:
There are probably more breaking changes I forgot. |
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Removing these things like this isn't really an acceptable way to handle things. If they wanna remove things, they should make it an option, and they can even change the default while keeping the old value set for existing installations of the browser. Especially when it's something as subjective as these things, it's ridiculous to just remove them instead of making them an option:
The fact that these things there are removed without any option to re-enable them, along with the inability to disable glance when you search from the context-menu, are enough reasons for me to switch browser. Zen could have been a nice browser, but I will not recommend this one to anyone anymore if they are gonna keep going like this. |
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Couldn't say it better. Perhaps it could be a good feature for those wanting it, but for me it transformed a perfectly usable behavior into something I don't like, that doesn't work, and that I cannot even deactivate! I think Zen is at the point where it need to introduce less breaking changes in its UI without extensive testing them before. Improving over the decades-old browsing paradigm is still sorely needed even now, but you need a trong, solid ground under your feets before you leap. |
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On the whole, even though its termed beta software, I do agree that breaking changes (especially about features that were previously released, and lots of users have adopted) should be done with more communication, and an option to preserve the old mechanism should be kept in place. Just saying that "its beta software" will only mean that us early adopters will be discouraged and will jump ship. |
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While I agree that there might be many workflow changes - maybe too many - I do not agree that there should be options to re-enable them after their removal for one simple reason: technical debt and maintenance costs. Zen is still mostly developed by a single person, and every option will make development that little slower. Developer, focus on your vision. That said, maybe create some polls to see what the userbase prefers whenever you change the workflow? |
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Funnily enough they do keep an option but with "your search button in search is now glance" feature it is hidden behind ctrl+click or middle click so the technical debt is still there. Making disable glance toggle also disable this behaviour wouldn't add that much. Besides having glance anywhere when it's disabled probably qualifies as a bug Edit: Lol it is a bug #8752 (comment) |
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Oooh @pettycrimes420 comment made me find a way to prevent the glance search. Since the default behavior is to press a modifier to trigger it, I wondered what would happen if I press another modifier while clicking the search entry in the contextual menu. In my case (mac OSD sequoia 15.5, Zen 1.12.9b, modifier is the default one (Alt + click). Results: no mod / Alt launch Glance search, Cmd / Shift opens another window, and Ctrl… Ctrl opens a new tab, in the background. Which is awesome, because it's something I thought wasn't possible in Firefox, and now I know how to do it. Assuming it's an obscure but intended behavior, and not the byproduct of #8752 |
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You need to be able to implement stuff in a way that gives the user options and makes the application maintainable if you're gonna make a useable browser. If you cannot do that, I wouldn't trust you to develop any browser I'd use as a daily driver. |
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IF It being ran by a single person would support the statement of slowing down features & shrinking scope? As for the option to re-enable, it doesn't have to every feature but be realistic. Features like the PIP tab away and new new tab feature are not great default options & serve more as Extras. Then if you had a feature that change the download layout, that's something different. |
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Adding an insult to an injury, at least in its current state you can't even open a link from glance so you end up being stuck on search results page. If you're one of those six people that actually trust and rely on google ai overview this search in glance is a baller feature. Also, if my name was Sundar Pichai I'd probably be in dire need of new pants by now because someone has finally found a way to prevent user from ever leaving the search results page. |
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While your griefs are valid, I'd like to remind that this is still the work of mostly one dev, on a massive project. Not saying we shouldn't criticize, but we should do it in a construtive way. For me, Zen is at a point where it needs to slow down a bit before going forward with new changes. I think discussions should help the devs finding a balanced pace between introducing new UX paradigms and consolidating core behaviors. |
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I don't know what's wrong with having just alt-click to open something in glance? There isn't a grand benefit from changing the search from google behavior. You can't see the page where the search is spawning from, it's being covered by glance. The side panel feature, all though gone," would been better option to spawn a search. Glance more attuned into search something like a word quickly or peeking at page. |
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Every week or other now, features are added, and features get broken.
last example is audio indicators not working in collapsed tab view, having to google and figure out i had to adjust "zen.view.sidebar-collapsed.hide-mute-button"
now today, there is a new option, where right click > search, on a selected word, now opens it as a glance tab, instead of an actual tab, and i dont want this, i dont know how to disable this, this leads me as a user searching around trying to disable a new feature i never asked for, that never gave me an option to disable.
And yes, the default glance i have always had disabled in options.
Please, improve your releases so situations like this are more rare, ending up with users searching on how to enable/disable features added because there is no option nor documentation on it.
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